First successful Regent game
- Thread starter mcsniper
- Start date
Assuming your file is calld Persia.SAV and was uploaded last night it is at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/Persia.SAV
I have had a quick look at this file. Your comment indicates that you might be hoping for a histographic victory, but I've looked at all your victory options:
1. Histographic: No chance. You are second right now but living on faded glory. America and Germany are both increasing their scores much faster than you. In any case the game won't go on long enough, as before 2050 one of them will launch a space ship or build the UN unless you do something about it.
2. Cultural: Not an option. Persepolis is at 10K now and would need 200 more turns to reach 20K. Your total culture is 33K. I haven't done the sums, but I doubt if it can get to 100K and twice that of the AIs.
3. Diplomatic: Possible. You are third in population, so you can only be certain to be a candidate in a UN election if you build the UN yourself. The Aztecs are currently furious with you so I assume you've been upsetting them - surprising since you only have 4 ships. They are also at war with the other two, so they might abstain. The other two are Gracious, but America would be your rival in the election. If the Aztecs are alive and don't vote for you then you can't get more than 50% of the votes. You could try eliminating the Aztecs, building the UN and hoping for Germany to vote for you.
4. Spaceship: Possible. America and Germany are both ahead of you in techs, but you have a fast research rate. Unfortunately you've let Abe get the drop on you with Theory of Evolution, which would have been a great opportunity to catch up and overtake. Without that, and with a reputation problem that stymies your ability to buy techs for gpt you have a problem. I think you are going to have trouble catching them now.
5. Military: Not likely. Your military strength is low relative to America and Germany, your army is mainly defensive units, and you have no naval capability, so defeating either of them is a tall order from where you stand now. You would need to take most of one of them, plus the Aztecs, to reach 2/3 of land area, and you might still be struggling to reach 2/3 population.
Diplomatic or space victories are the only slim possibilities I can see, and both are unlikely given your tech disadvantage. Your best hope is to find a way to get to the Modern era in time to get your free tech before they research it. Then you may be able to trade with them. The trouble with that idea is that the Germans will also get a freebie, probably the same one, reducing your advantage.
Some general points:
Your civ is generally well developed and productive, and you have managed to keep up with the AI pretty well, but I would suggest the following as food for thought for this and future games:
- Histographic victory is not generally an option at Regent or above, and certainly not when there are scientific civs involved, unless you take specific steps to stunt AI development.
- Just keeping up with the AI is not enough to win. By this stage in the game you should really be moving ahead of them along your chosen route to victory. So first choose your route, then focus all your decisions on moving along it as fast as possible.
- You could use more workers. You only have 11 home-grown workers and 9 guests for over 30 cities. This means you take a long time to develop your land, build your rail network and clear pollution, even with the industrious trait of the Persians.
- Your cities were spaced a long way apart for the first half of the game. Your settlers had to walk miles to build your early cities, they couldn't provide mutual defence and you only had half the cities you could have built in the original space you had available. That must have slowed down your early development rate. Later on you inherit cities with wider spacings as you capture them from the AI, but your early core only needs three or four tiles between cities.
- You are building city improvements you don't need. Cathedrals and colusseums are of marginal value unless you are specifically targeting a cultural victory. Sure they make happy faces, but you could achieve that with extra luxury acquisition. On the other hand you could build Courthouses in some of your semi-corrupt cities to improve their performance.
- Having spaced out your cities to allow growth to 20 citizens you are not letting it happen everywhere. Pasagardae is an example of a city that is producing more food than it needs at size 12. It should have more mined tiles, or else it should have a Hospital to enable it to grow further. Increased population will produce more gold and more workers, giving more research and more options.
- At some point you have trashed your reputation by walking out on a 20 turn deal. No-one will give you a one-time tech or cash for a 20-turn alliance or lux or gpt deal. You need to think about how that happened and try to avoid it in future, as it puts a severe crimp into your trading options. Your reputation can be destroyed by any premature termination of a 20 turn alliance or trade deal, and this is typically done by accident.
I have had a quick look at this file. Your comment indicates that you might be hoping for a histographic victory, but I've looked at all your victory options:
1. Histographic: No chance. You are second right now but living on faded glory. America and Germany are both increasing their scores much faster than you. In any case the game won't go on long enough, as before 2050 one of them will launch a space ship or build the UN unless you do something about it.
2. Cultural: Not an option. Persepolis is at 10K now and would need 200 more turns to reach 20K. Your total culture is 33K. I haven't done the sums, but I doubt if it can get to 100K and twice that of the AIs.
3. Diplomatic: Possible. You are third in population, so you can only be certain to be a candidate in a UN election if you build the UN yourself. The Aztecs are currently furious with you so I assume you've been upsetting them - surprising since you only have 4 ships. They are also at war with the other two, so they might abstain. The other two are Gracious, but America would be your rival in the election. If the Aztecs are alive and don't vote for you then you can't get more than 50% of the votes. You could try eliminating the Aztecs, building the UN and hoping for Germany to vote for you.
4. Spaceship: Possible. America and Germany are both ahead of you in techs, but you have a fast research rate. Unfortunately you've let Abe get the drop on you with Theory of Evolution, which would have been a great opportunity to catch up and overtake. Without that, and with a reputation problem that stymies your ability to buy techs for gpt you have a problem. I think you are going to have trouble catching them now.
5. Military: Not likely. Your military strength is low relative to America and Germany, your army is mainly defensive units, and you have no naval capability, so defeating either of them is a tall order from where you stand now. You would need to take most of one of them, plus the Aztecs, to reach 2/3 of land area, and you might still be struggling to reach 2/3 population.
Diplomatic or space victories are the only slim possibilities I can see, and both are unlikely given your tech disadvantage. Your best hope is to find a way to get to the Modern era in time to get your free tech before they research it. Then you may be able to trade with them. The trouble with that idea is that the Germans will also get a freebie, probably the same one, reducing your advantage.
Some general points:
Your civ is generally well developed and productive, and you have managed to keep up with the AI pretty well, but I would suggest the following as food for thought for this and future games:
- Histographic victory is not generally an option at Regent or above, and certainly not when there are scientific civs involved, unless you take specific steps to stunt AI development.
- Just keeping up with the AI is not enough to win. By this stage in the game you should really be moving ahead of them along your chosen route to victory. So first choose your route, then focus all your decisions on moving along it as fast as possible.
- You could use more workers. You only have 11 home-grown workers and 9 guests for over 30 cities. This means you take a long time to develop your land, build your rail network and clear pollution, even with the industrious trait of the Persians.
- Your cities were spaced a long way apart for the first half of the game. Your settlers had to walk miles to build your early cities, they couldn't provide mutual defence and you only had half the cities you could have built in the original space you had available. That must have slowed down your early development rate. Later on you inherit cities with wider spacings as you capture them from the AI, but your early core only needs three or four tiles between cities.
- You are building city improvements you don't need. Cathedrals and colusseums are of marginal value unless you are specifically targeting a cultural victory. Sure they make happy faces, but you could achieve that with extra luxury acquisition. On the other hand you could build Courthouses in some of your semi-corrupt cities to improve their performance.
- Having spaced out your cities to allow growth to 20 citizens you are not letting it happen everywhere. Pasagardae is an example of a city that is producing more food than it needs at size 12. It should have more mined tiles, or else it should have a Hospital to enable it to grow further. Increased population will produce more gold and more workers, giving more research and more options.
- At some point you have trashed your reputation by walking out on a 20 turn deal. No-one will give you a one-time tech or cash for a 20-turn alliance or lux or gpt deal. You need to think about how that happened and try to avoid it in future, as it puts a severe crimp into your trading options. Your reputation can be destroyed by any premature termination of a 20 turn alliance or trade deal, and this is typically done by accident.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
mcsniper, Alan provided great advice. A few thoughts from my peek at your save:
(1) Try branching off the tech tree and pick up Radio or Flight before the AI civs, then trade it around for lucrative deals (tech & gpt).
(2) German MPP, w/ 6 turns remaining may drag you into a war w/ the Aztecs. Fortunatley, there are no deals w/ them on the table. Be careful of MPPs, use them for a specific purpose (#3). An MPP isn't necessary when you control your own landmass = no eminent threat.
(3) Use the MPP w/ Germany to your advantage by declaring war on America, which can then drag Germany into the war. This may lead to a protracted conflict between Germany and America, along their wide border. This will slow their research rates and force them into communism. You, meanwhile, remain a democracy and catch up in tech, perhaps, even surpass. But, be sure America attacks you within your territory, lay some bait (unprotected transport) within your territorial waters. You only have 6 turns remaining on the MPP, you may wish to wait and renew it. If Germany doesn't renew it, try America. Doesn't matter the ally, as long as those two guys are at war. If your forced to fight the Aztecs, then neither America or Germany will likely sign an MPP w/ you - way it goes.
(4) Domination option: activate mobilization (F1 screen) and crank out tanks,transports, and naval escorts. Amphibious landings are suicide but possible, have several defensive units mixed in.
(5) Space Race option: build an invasion force and several tactical nukes (loaded on nuclear submarines), then take out rival captial cities (must raze capital w/ your units/ nuking it is not enough); be prepared for other civs to declare war on you, save a nuke or two for their capitals.
(1) Try branching off the tech tree and pick up Radio or Flight before the AI civs, then trade it around for lucrative deals (tech & gpt).
(2) German MPP, w/ 6 turns remaining may drag you into a war w/ the Aztecs. Fortunatley, there are no deals w/ them on the table. Be careful of MPPs, use them for a specific purpose (#3). An MPP isn't necessary when you control your own landmass = no eminent threat.
(3) Use the MPP w/ Germany to your advantage by declaring war on America, which can then drag Germany into the war. This may lead to a protracted conflict between Germany and America, along their wide border. This will slow their research rates and force them into communism. You, meanwhile, remain a democracy and catch up in tech, perhaps, even surpass. But, be sure America attacks you within your territory, lay some bait (unprotected transport) within your territorial waters. You only have 6 turns remaining on the MPP, you may wish to wait and renew it. If Germany doesn't renew it, try America. Doesn't matter the ally, as long as those two guys are at war. If your forced to fight the Aztecs, then neither America or Germany will likely sign an MPP w/ you - way it goes.
(4) Domination option: activate mobilization (F1 screen) and crank out tanks,transports, and naval escorts. Amphibious landings are suicide but possible, have several defensive units mixed in.
(5) Space Race option: build an invasion force and several tactical nukes (loaded on nuclear submarines), then take out rival captial cities (must raze capital w/ your units/ nuking it is not enough); be prepared for other civs to declare war on you, save a nuke or two for their capitals.
There's some great advice for moving up the difficulty levels in a recent Strategy Article. One of the tips there is "Don't keep playing a favorite civ". You'll learn to play better if you learn how to tackle random civs on random maps. For example, if you get to rely on having industrious workers or cheap libraries you'll never learn to deal with the normal kind.
"Too crowded" is nothing to do with city spacing, it's just a general gripe from any unhappy citizen that hasn't any specific complaint. Ask any of your unhappy citizens what's upsetting them and they'll say that, unless you've been whipping them or beating up their native civ recently. You don't need more than 12 tiles per city until very late in the game. Keep them close together for efficient use of land, fast integration of your cultural borders without spending time and shields on temples, and fast movement across your territory.
Also, I notice you keep defensive units in each city. Not necessary. Particularly now that you have a rail network and control of your entire continent there's really no need for distributed defensive units at all, and certainly not in the quantities you have them. Defensive units are only necessary in your homeland if you let the enemy get to your cities, but you should deal with them before that happens. The AI is lousy at seaborne invasion. They'll land a transport-full of units somewhere and you can pick them off with a single bunch of artillery and cavalry, moved from anywhere in your continent.
"Too crowded" is nothing to do with city spacing, it's just a general gripe from any unhappy citizen that hasn't any specific complaint. Ask any of your unhappy citizens what's upsetting them and they'll say that, unless you've been whipping them or beating up their native civ recently. You don't need more than 12 tiles per city until very late in the game. Keep them close together for efficient use of land, fast integration of your cultural borders without spending time and shields on temples, and fast movement across your territory.
Also, I notice you keep defensive units in each city. Not necessary. Particularly now that you have a rail network and control of your entire continent there's really no need for distributed defensive units at all, and certainly not in the quantities you have them. Defensive units are only necessary in your homeland if you let the enemy get to your cities, but you should deal with them before that happens. The AI is lousy at seaborne invasion. They'll land a transport-full of units somewhere and you can pick them off with a single bunch of artillery and cavalry, moved from anywhere in your continent.
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