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First time modder requesting feedback on Israel Civ concept

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Creation & Customization' started by The Kings Raven, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. The Kings Raven

    The Kings Raven Chieftain

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    Hello everyone, I'm a first time modder who wants to add my country (well one of them) to Civilisation 6. I know it's a little early to be asking for feedback but I'm hoping to have the design finalised so I'm ready hit the ground running when the game comes out.

    My goal is to add Israel as a full playable civilisation. But rather than creating modern or biblical Israel my goal is to create a civilisation that draws from the whole history of the Jewish people.

    Obviously doing that within a single civilisation will require a lot of simplification, so I'm cutting it into three "eras":

    • Biblical Israel: Focusing on faith
    • The Diaspora - focusing on far flung communities and merchants
    • Modern Israel - focusing on military and science

    Each era feeds into the following, with faith buying the economy boosting Radhanite unit and gp buying the Haganah unique unit.

    Without further adu here's the actual design I have so far:

    Unique Advantage: Chosen People
    Settler's can only be acquired by buying them with faith. Gain the unique unit Radhanite, replacing apostle.

    Radhanites retain the apostle's ability to enhance a religion ("your merchants bring teachings from rabbis in far off lands") and can construct Radhanite trading posts on luxury or strategic resources if you have the technology workers need to collect that resource. A Radhanite trading post adds the resource to your empire and provides +1 gp, +2 with Apprenticeships when the tile is worked. If built outside your territory they claim the tile they are built on.

    Rationale: The limitation on settlers represents Israel's small size and the complete lack of a nation for much of history. I'm hoping to balance it so that you can get a few settlers out at roughly the usual time but later on settlers, especially when you have other options like Radhanites competing for your faith. This might involve making the cost scale with the era or your number of cities.

    The Radhanites are the core representation of the diaspora era. it's spectated that many Jewish populations descend from Radhanite outposts while their ability to claim resources outside your borders creates something of a diaspora population. ​

    Leader: Moses - Promised Land
    Pastures provide +1 faith. Gain double Great Prophet points in the ancient era.

    Moses' agenda is The Second Commandment. He dislikes civilisations who spread religion into his cities. He likes civilisations that have fewer luxury resources than him. As an obvious nod to real history, Moses is hardcoded to avoid fascism and hates anyone who adopts fascism.

    Rationale: Aside from the obvious nod to history Moses is strictly from the ancient era. Moses' hard line on foreign religions is self-explanatory. The luxury resources is a reference to his successor Joshua and the Gibeonites. I think keeping those civilisations around would also make good trading opportunities.​

    Unique unit: Yashiva - replaces temple

    In addition to providing faith, the Yashiva increases the city's science output by a percentage.

    Rationale: While I wanted to associate science with modern Israel, I chose the classical era Yashiva for two reasons: Firstly I couldn't think of any iconic modern building to use. Secondly Jewdism is famous for not having a temple so replacing it felt right. I made it a percentage boost to ensure that it remains relevant in the modern era.​

    Unique Unit: Haganah - replaces infantry

    Haganah have the same stats as infantry but require 33% less hammers to build and 50% less gp to buy. They gain a 10% combat bonus when fighting near a destroyed Radhanite trading post and a 20% combat bonus when fighting near one of your destroyed or occupied cities.

    Rationale: I needed to have at least some representation of the modern era that actually appears in the modern era, so I chose to Haganah. The bonus to fighting near a destroyed or occupied city references the real Haganah taking Israel. Because this bonus is highly situational I gave them the ahistoric bonus when near destroyed Radhanite trading posts to compensate. Since they were paramilitary force with no state backing I made them cheaper rather than stronger than regular infantry.​
     
  2. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Took me awhile to figure out that gp is Gold Pieces. Have you been playing Dungeons and Dragons lately?

    There is a subforum for Ideas and Suggestions. In there, there's a thread for new Civ designs. You might want to put this there, too, to collect more opinions.

    You have bonuses that are all representative of the history you want to show, but does the playstyle of the Civ match what you think Israel should be about? Just something to think about.
     
  3. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    Pretty cool, they could also be a civ with an Espionage bonus, maybe as their leader ability.

    If you make ancient era leader they could have unique unit Maccabee.
     
  4. civ4ludo

    civ4ludo Warlord

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    I would suggest you take a look at Freeciv, which is an open version of Civ based on Civ2. They have both an Israeli and an ancient Israelite civ, with various different leaders available. Of course Freeciv also lets you put down any name you want as leader.
    I wish you good luck in your endeavour!
     
  5. The Kings Raven

    The Kings Raven Chieftain

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    The Mossad would probably be the inverse of Civ 6's France. No bonus in getting information about other civs, but stronger spy units. Assuming that's possible. We have no idea how spies work yet.

    That said it doesn't feel right having an civ that includes ancient Israel without giving it some faith bonus. And since I've been using the leader bonus for extra faith it might not work with modern leaders.

    Shoudln't the Maccabees be classical era? They were a revolution against the Greeks.

    I like the idea of adding Judas Maccabee as a Great General with the ability to start an inquisition or if one has already been started, he can be used like an inquisitor.

    However since Israel already has two unique units I don't like the idea of giving them a third through a leader ability.

    That said it I'm now planning a second leader, Joshua, who's ability will be faith from destroying barbarian camps and capturing cities on his home continent. That would give a similar faith through combat effect than the Maccabees I saw in Civ5 mods.

    BTW while the overall design above is still accurate a lot of the details have changed. Not buying settlers with faith is probably the biggest difference.
     
  6. Moriboe

    Moriboe King

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    The Radhanite's ability to claim any free luxury tile sounds powerful and I really like the way it represents the diaspora. It also sounds like a huge annoyance to play against. Though it's unlikely that an AI playing as Israel will be able to use this ability. It could be good to have an option to claim adjacent such tiles (when not also adjacent to Israel's land) in a war situation (other than with a general). Just moving in with a military unit maybe? So the AI can do it too, even if it's by accident.
     
  7. The Kings Raven

    The Kings Raven Chieftain

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    It's true that the AI will probably have trouble, but I'm ok with creating a civ that only works for humans.

    Taking over adjacent tiles sounds like an something that could come from an alternative leader ability. I wouldn't make it the unique advantage though, as it wouldn't represent the diaspora.
     
  8. Moriboe

    Moriboe King

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    Oh I didn't express myself clearly. I meant for Israel's opponents to be able to take over the tile containing the Radhanite trading post. I was speaking from a balance perspective, but it could represent an ugly historical aspect too...
     
  9. The Kings Raven

    The Kings Raven Chieftain

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    Ah. An auto-pillage could be useful for the the AI but I'm going to see if there's some way to teach the AI to pillage them without it.
     

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