First Unit: Warrior or Slinger?

[Ryika]

I had been defaulting to producing a Slinger as my first unit (aside from the scout of course), but recently I've played around with constructing a Warrior instead.

I have to say: I'm pleasantly surprised by how well this works out. 2 Warriors are very good at zoning out barbarians and fortifying on early improvements, while at the same time being more capable of removing barbarian camps (slingers become quite good at it in pairs though). The Warrior also doesn't cost any Maintenance, which is only a difference of 1 GPT, but still... it's 1 GPT very early in the game.

And most importantly perhaps, a Warrior can actually stand strong against those nasty Horseman-Barbarian "Armies", while Slingers just get eaten by them.

Shortly before I unlock Archery I can then add in 3 Slingers to create the "default" 2 Melee/3 Ranged Combo that can - with very few exceptions - basically defend against any assault at of that time.

I suggest giving it a try if you haven't already.

Any thoughts?

 

[Zantetsuken]

I could see this being good, though the main reason I build the slingers is to try to get quick archery with the eureka, but also because of the cheap upgrade into archers (which are awesome)

 

[Zenstrive]

I usually build warrior, scout, and slinger early, as a flexible exploration and defending team

 

[Acken]

I use a warrior for the reasons you've presented.

 

[Nefelia]

Slingers have only 5 Merle strength, so they are too vulnerable to be the first unit. I usually build one scout, followed by three warrior, and then 6-8 slingers. I get the Archery Eureka and then just upgrade all of the slingers into into archers.

Not the optimal start for the warmonger, but it does give me a robust defense force for peaceful rapid expansion and barbarian hunting.

 

[Furycrab]

Ill just say this... In theory, it should be at least as difficult, if not more difficult to take out barb camps with just a slinger, especially if you aren't running discipline. Archery is also a dead end tech so finding ways to skip it for some time is interesting.

In practice though, the barb spearmen is an idiot. He runs out of his fortified position even if he can't attack the unit on the same turn he does (meaning if you stand on a 2 movement or more tile with your slinger you are pretty much guarantied a first shot on an unfortified Spearmen) also... AI really seem to like the ancient wars again. Which is kinda fair considering ancient wars are a thing in this game. However it does mean you need to be aware that at a moments notice, you might need those archers to beat out bigger armies.

 

[joncnunn]

For me: The obvious Scout.
Then the Skirmisher : Kill Barb Scout units in terrain that starting warrior can't reach.
By the time that completes, it's enough to tell if a second scout or military unit is needed / a builder can be started.

But in general I'm a big fan of pre-building Archers as Skirmishers and just upgrading when Archery comes along.
Unless playing Rome, I'm not particularly a fan of Warriors due to the risk of not having Iron anywhere near the starting location. (Plus ranged units don't take damage themselves when they attack unlike melee units)

This also interacts with policies, I ALWAYS take as the first military policy the one giving extra strength against Barbarians and won't switch away until they are no longer a threat.

 

[Nefelia]

In practice though, the barb spearmen is an idiot. He runs out of his fortified position even if he can't attack the unit on the same turn he does (meaning if you stand on a 2 movement or more tile with your slinger you are pretty much guarantied a first shot on an unfortified Spearmen) also... AI really seem to like the ancient wars again. Which is kinda fair considering ancient wars are a thing in this game. However it does mean you need to be aware that at a moments notice, you might need those archers to beat out bigger armies.

The fact that spearmen rush to engage the archers is a huge improvement over Civ V, where the barbarians would just allow themselves to be whittled down.

In Civ V, I would often have several ranged units solo patrolling the wilderness for barb camps. In Civ VI, I would not dare to approach a barbarian camp with an unescorted ranged unit.

 

[Furycrab]

The fact that spearmen rush to engage the archers is a huge improvement over Civ V, where the barbarians would just allow themselves to be whittled down.

In Civ V, I would often have several ranged units solo patrolling the wilderness for barb camps. In Civ VI, I would not dare to approach a barbarian camp with an unescorted ranged unit.

Until you realize that it's behavior is 100% predictable and incredibly easy to abuse seeing that the player has omniscient sense of where barb camp positions. It's mostly that the barb doesn't seem to do this with any sort of sense of other units in the area. Slinger + Scout means you can sneak the camp by pulling him away. Slinger + Warrior, you pull him out of fortification and your warrior is now stronger. In most cases, if your goal is to defend the camp for as long as possible, the best option is for the spear to stay put, keep it's fort buff, and only push out once the slinger is right in it's face.

It's just one of those things that feels stupid because it only makes the barbs look smarter if you don't understand what's going on. So it punishes newer players and actually makes it easier for experienced players to kill the camp. I don't mind other barb units that are spawned to be aggressive, or for it to move if it can also attack in the same turn and the other unit is at least alone. Just the spears main goal should always be to keep the camp alive as long as possible.

If it did... An early second warrior could possibly be worth the extra few hammers.

 

[Nefelia]

Until you realize that it's behavior is 100% predictable and incredibly easy to abuse seeing that the player has omniscient sense of where barb camp positions. It's mostly that the barb doesn't seem to do this with any sort of sense of other units in the area. Slinger + Scout means you can sneak the camp by pulling him away. Slinger + Warrior, you pull him out of fortification and your warrior is now stronger. In most cases, if your goal is to defend the camp for as long as possible, the best option is for the spear to stay put, keep it's fort buff, and only push out once the slinger is right in it's face.

It's just one of those things that feels stupid because it only makes the barbs look smarter if you don't understand what's going on. So it punishes newer players and actually makes it easier for experienced players to kill the camp. I don't mind other barb units that are spawned to be aggressive, or for it to move if it can also attack in the same turn and the other unit is at least alone. Just the spears main goal should always be to keep the camp alive as long as possible.

If it did... An early second warrior could possibly be worth the extra few hammers.

You basically reinforced my point: you are using two units to take care of encampments. The difference between a mobile camp defender and one that stays fortified is that you actually have to be careful with the placement of your ranged unit.

Slightly off topic: I love the increased vulnerability of early ranged units in Civ VI.

 

[JustMormegil]

I usually build Scout, Scout, Warrior as my first 3 units. 2 Scouts help you to gain Foreign Trade, Political Phylosofy and some other exploration-specific eurecas much faster. Also they have greater chances to get more goody huts.

 

[Martinus]

I usually go Scout, Slinger, Builder, then another Unit (I usually can build something better by this time). Having an early Slinger is good for the Archery eureka.

I always pick Discipline as my first Military civics the first chance I get (i.e. upon invention of Code of Laws).

 

[lordqarlyn]

I have bad luck with barbarians spamming after the first few turns lol. I have to keep my warrior close by, then train a slinger, then I can train a scout. But one game I did get lucky because a nearby village gave me a scout.

 

[Qin Shi Hung]

I make slingers because they upgrade to archers.

Archers are much better than warriors.

 

[cephalo]

I like slingers because teamed with a warrior they usually don't take damage when defending, and it's not long at all before they become archers. All in all I might build two slingers in a game.

 

[Sogno di Volare]

I like scouts for the chance to getting some of the discovery eureka's as soon as possible and the lay of the land. I try to fit them in between military units as the barbarian threat allows.

I try to avoid making too many early warriors. I'm not a fan of them. There is no guarantee (hell for me it seems to be unlikely) that I will be able to upgrade them to swordsmen.

Slingers on the other hand do well enough in a group and once they are archers they're very powerful.

Also a local scout is pretty handy as a patrol unit due to movement and combined with archers he can be useful for finishing off those annoying injured barbarians (or even stray enemy units) that run around all day. My combat scouts come in handy fairly often.

 

[dtfauss]

I agree with a lot of the various sentiments posted:
My general build order - with variations based on situation:
1. Scout (hoping for a bit of RNG on goody huts, eurekas, and city state envoy/bonuses - plus map reveals)
2. Slinger (archery eureka, plus these will upgrade to archers, warriors are too dependent on hoping for iron)
3. Builder (quick bonus to capital city due to tile improvements) - this is the most conditional, as this could call for settler or more military

I almost never build the momument early, or 2nd warriors.

 

[ilker]

more slingers are better for early defense against deity in my opinion. I dont build second melee if not necessary before the first spearmen. not also worthy much if you dont have iron.

 

[RedRover57]

I have been using this build order quite a bit: scout - scout - slinger - builder - slinger - slinger

It seems to maximize early Eureka bonuses plus better chance at getting goody huts and being first to meet CS.

 

[chazzycat]

I usually build Scout, Scout, Warrior as my first 3 units. 2 Scouts help you to gain Foreign Trade, Political Phylosofy and some other exploration-specific eurecas much faster. Also they have greater chances to get more goody huts.

I feel like scouts die too easily to barbs to start with two of them. If you run into an early horse camp, they are so boned.

Slingers have only 5 Merle strength, so they are too vulnerable to be the first unit. I usually build one scout, followed by three warrior, and then 6-8 slingers.

But 6-8 slingers feels like overkill unless you're warmongering. No builder?