Followup after Great Lighthouse - Gmerch bulbs?

[krikav]

After the experience with victoria in nobles club, I found out some interesting things.

I built GLighthouse and later also the colossus, so I had GMerchants comming.
I did bulb civil service in the game, while self-teching machinery. Then I built alot of macemen while going for enginering to get some trebuchets.

This road was a stunning success, I steamrolled over my neightbour and had a very easy game after that.

But now I am thinking about how to refine this strategy more!
Since a conquest is in the cards, I figure that a market extra in the capital won't be a bad idea.
So a quick market in the city that built GLH could accelerate GMerch generation.

I know metal casting, CoL and CS are all possible to bulb with GMerch, but perhaps one can bulb machinery as well?

Could it be possible to build alot of axemen/warriors and upgrade them?
Should one wait for trebs, or go with catapults? Or even do a spy-assisted push?

I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on the viability of this GMerch assisted maceman push, and how to make it better!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

A trade mission will beat most non-scientist bulbs and does not take much planning. Min gold on normal is 900, ToA pushes that to 1100. There aren't many techs that cost that early on when you factor science multipliers so you can just bang out deficit research.

 

[krikav]

A trade mission will beat most non-scientist bulbs and does not take much planning. Min gold on normal is 900, ToA pushes that to 1100. There aren't many techs that cost that early on when you factor science multipliers so you can just bang out deficit research.

I have a sneaking suspicion that bulbing CS and switching to byro direcly, can be more beneficial than walking across the map and then doing deficit research to get CS and only then swap.
900 gold siphoned through an empire with total library coverage is still only 1125 beakers.
I think that the CS bulb gives roughly the same amount of beakers.


If you are trying to present a fail-safe simple aproach, then yes doing trade missions per default is probably superior.
But what I am hinting for here, isn't something failsafe and of average quality.
I want to hone in on a carefully calibrated plan of excellence!

 

[AbsoluteZero]

either a trade mission or MC for forges + Colossus, or currency. All 3 of those are good, although if you don't have alpha getting early currency isn't half as beneficial.

Bulbing stuff like machinery or CS is not worth it with a GM IMO.

 

[krikav]

either a trade mission or MC for forges + Colossus, or currency. All 3 of those are good, although

Colossus can be an absolute beast in some circumstances.
I relied heavily on colossus in the latest NC with victoria.
Financial colossus coast that early is incredible.

if you don't have alpha getting early currency isn't half as beneficial.

Can you elaborate abit on why? Are you thinking of currency as trade bait?
My reasoning is such, that if you have alpha, you are in less dire need of currency, since you allready have "something" to do with your hammers.

Bulbing stuff like machinery or CS is not worth it with a GM IMO.

I would guess that during the phase in which you do get a GMerch, you usually have some other plan allready set in motion, in which a trade mission fits much better.

 

[ahcos]

Can you elaborate abit on why?

AZ, correct me if i'm wrong, but i think mainly because without Alpha you can't sell small techs for gold, which makes Currency alot less wortwhile to have early on.

 

[krikav]

AZ, correct me if i'm wrong, but i think mainly because without Alpha you can't sell small techs for gold, which makes Currency alot less wortwhile to have early on.

Ah, ofcourse. That makes sense.

 

[bhavv]

I prefer to settle them in my wall street city, and run more merchants with the extra food provided.

 

[krikav]

I prefer to settle them in my wall street city, and run more merchants with the extra food provided.

If I build the great lighthouse, I _usually_ don't have a wallstreet city by the time I get my first GMerchant.

 

[vranasm]

the only thing that catched my eye here is the possibility of bulbing CS deep in the BC era... would be best supported by some example game krikav

what is the "typical" date for this strategy to get CS?

 

[stimpyhoek]

oracle caste to start u merchant run. Any philo character. Run em till u cap is dead. 5 settled merchants. Then see if u can lose money @100%.

 

[ecuwins]

I <3 trade missions.

 

[Habitus]

the only thing that catched my eye here is the possibility of bulbing CS deep in the BC era... would be best supported by some example game krikav

what is the "typical" date for this strategy to get CS?

At a guess, 1800BC GHL would mean a Merchant around 900BC with Philo, 250BC without. Of course you can run more specs to speed that up to with the chance of not getting a merchant.

 

[goldys_lackey]

After teching Priesthood, MC, and Currency you could bulb CoL for your shrine city -> Wall St. City.

 

[krikav]

the only thing that catched my eye here is the possibility of bulbing CS deep in the BC era... would be best supported by some example game krikav

what is the "typical" date for this strategy to get CS?

I have no clue of the viability of this strategy. And I do not think I am the most fit person to try get it work, as I am still learning alot.
This was only ideas that I spawned, while trying out the NC victoria game.
I did have success with the maces, and I did get them with a CS bulb (Bulbing at 150 AD.)
I did not accelerate the appearance of the GMerch with specialists though.

The foe I managed to vassalise was Pacal on Immortal, and he did not have an adequate army to stop me.

On diety against a more resiliant opponent than pacall, I would guess that there is a much smaller window of oppertunity.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I would guess that during the phase in which you do get a GMerch, you usually have some other plan allready set in motion, in which a trade mission fits much better.

Typically at the point I can get to CS I have an academy and a library in my capitol which means I get +65% to any research, so a trade mission giving me 1100 becomes worth 1815 beakers. A CS bulb from a GM will be a little over 1000 beakers. So unless I am in an extreme hurry to get to CS for some reason, it's more efficient to go for the gold.

The reason I might consider bulbing things like currency is because I can skim early gold from AI's that I would otherwise miss. Metal casting bulb might be useful for getting colossus or triremes. CoL is too cheap to bulb for my taste, but I suppose if you wanted to found the religion or needed cast system you might do it.

 

[Seraiel]

I built GLighthouse and later also the colossus, so I had GMerchants comming.
I did bulb civil service in the game, while self-teching machinery. Then I built alot of macemen while going for enginering to get some trebuchets.

This road was a stunning success, I steamrolled over my neightbour and had a very easy game after that.

I don't wanna bring any hate into this thread. I'm very relieved, that somebody actually tried out 1 move units, like Maces (and Praets are even better because they only cost half) . I tried out mounted warfare, as everybody told me it'd be ueber, and only thing I have learned is: Mounted warfare that is successfull, happens with Cuirrassiers, Maces or even Praets come much earlier, and: One loses a ton more mounted units then the CR-promoted 1-move units. Advantage of mounted is, that AI won't whip the cities down so much, and a Blitz is easier to coordinate.

Conclusion: Both types of units do as well when used properly. Mounted units are more fragile but reach the place sooner and one can dispatch them between cities, so AI cannot defend so well. Anyway, one loses more of them. With 1-move units, it doesn't matter that they're slower, as they're much stronger and can handle more defenders, only disadvantage being really, that the captured cities are smaller, which can be a big disadvantage, if one cannot immediately whip a courthouse in them, because AI whipped them to size 5 for example, they really take a long time to recover.

With 1 move units, Stacksplit is very advisable (though as a german, who has Blitzkrieg in his blood, I think it's always advisable. Coordination is the key, and that's hard very hard to learn, it's like cooking.) Btw, I didn't laugh, when MGR suggested Praets + Cannons. I know it's rediculous, that's why people laugh, but the ones doing maths, and the ones having tried, know it works awesomely. Another way working as well are CR3 promoted Rifles, then one does not even need Cannons as they own everything without them. Even stronger are Cannons + CR3 promoted Grenadiers, as they're easy to get and cannot be countered, and best of all is, that this also allows for Biology in the BC's.

Cuirrassiers are very very good, Cavs are even a little bit better, but they aren't everything that works in Civ.

 

[vranasm]

@Seraiel

you really have to think a bit broader with this comparision. On Marathon your troops move 3x times faster then on Normal, so if you need 30 turns for moving with 1-movers from 1 side of enemy empire to the other on normal you will start against LB's and end against rifles.
2-movers will cut this time to 15 turns.

On quick speed I imagine that in 30 turns good AI can go from LB's to Infantry.

 

[vranasm]

I have no clue of the viability of this strategy. And I do not think I am the most fit person to try get it work, as I am still learning alot.
This was only ideas that I spawned, while trying out the NC victoria game.
I did have success with the maces, and I did get them with a CS bulb (Bulbing at 150 AD.)
I did not accelerate the appearance of the GMerch with specialists though.

The foe I managed to vassalise was Pacal on Immortal, and he did not have an adequate army to stop me.

On diety against a more resiliant opponent than pacall, I would guess that there is a much smaller window of oppertunity.

If you imagine that in favorable maps players get CS from Oracle (which it's typical date is like 1500 BC) it looks not worth the effort...

a little bit disappointing that it doesn't look like new FOTM strategy ;-)

 

[krikav]

a little bit disappointing that it doesn't look like new FOTM strategy ;-)

Indeed! We need more of those.