football thread No11

Since we're discussing comedy, this August has seen the sitting president of FIFA cleared of any wrongdoing by the committee FIFA appointed.


Fancy that...
 
At least Arsenal are level on points with Leicester this time around.
 
Absolutely, the Arsenal game was utter madness... When will they ever actually be 'ready' for a season?? Always 'missing a little bit sharpness' or something, according to Wenger...
 
It's not as if they hadn't had two and a half months to prepare. Oh wait…


Hmmm, CL qualifiers I might watch… not.
 
Oh, you might have missed it, but Lionel Messi is officially back in the team for Argentina.
 
Saw that as a headline at the Guardian. Would be interesting to know what skullduggery/palm greasing/blackmail/yada yada yada was behind that.
 
Messi applied pressure because AFA was going under. They weren't paying any coaches or managers' salaries, players and staff had to pay for their own tickets and sometimes even hotel rooms at the Copa América, etc. etc.
Basically, the people at AFA are a bunch of crooks. Last year's election for president ended tied at 38-38, with 75 votes cast.

As such, it is a testament to the capacity of the players and manager that they managed to reach the final of the Copa América anyway. Martino's tenure had a really good overall performance, 3-3-0 at the CA 2015, 3-2-1 so far in the WC qualifiers and 5-1-0 at the CA 2016 adds up to 11-6-1.
But Martino was already getting tired of all the double-dealing AFA engaged in and then AFA simply could not gather eleven players for the Olympic Games -the clubs in Europe refused, clubs in Argentina did the same, and a week or so before the Games there were exactly eleven players available, two of them goalkeepers; AFA were not. By then Martino had had enough and quit, all the coaching staff for the various under-X teams had also done the same. And even then, Argentina crashed out to Honduras on freaking goal difference after missing a penalty when the scoreline was 0-0. :crazyeye:
With a bit more brains and simple common sense, AFA could have built on their team's 2014 performance by winning at least one of the two editions of the Copa América and gotten an Olympic medal in the process. Buncha idiots.


Now that the leadership of AFA is out (including both of the candidates of the famous tied vote last year) there is a chance for things to go slowly back to normal -also, FIFA cannot sell the TV rights and scalped tickets to a World Cup without the best player in the world, eh?
 
Absolutely, the Arsenal game was utter madness... When will they ever actually be 'ready' for a season?? Always 'missing a little bit sharpness' or something, according to Wenger...

They're always ready for a 2nd-5th finish. Have the cash but don't go out and get the quality and depth required to win the title.

I'm convinced that their board doesn't really care. They don't want to be champions. They just want to maximize profits.
 
Midterm they do. They know that winning titles and progressing to the further stages of the Champions League will get them money, but I wonder by how much the construction of the new stadium has really set them back. Long-term, it's better to start winning titles. *shrugs*
 
I think they've reached a bit of a balance in terms of what they achieve each season, how much money that brings in, and how much money was spent to make all that happen. It seems to be a matter of diminishing return for them - they are a moderately successful club, even if they don't really win many trophies (lately). They're constantly in the top 4 in the Premier League and do decently in the Champions League each season.

To some people success means trophies, but to the Arsenal board.. well, they aren't exactly failing. The fans keep coming. The fans keep buying their jerseys. They're consistently qualifying for the Champions league and bringing in that money. To achieve a next level of success would mean a significant long-term investment.. every season. They are probably happy spending what they spend and reaping the rewards. Like I said it's probably a case of diminishing returns for them - to reach the next "level of success" they have to spend a lot more, and more and more, and it's not even guaranteed. It's a bit of a crapshoot, really. So why bother? Fans might complain here and there but all in all the stability of the club and season-to-season finances are more important (to the board).

As an investor, I would be happy with Arsenal's success. I mean, I haven't looked at their books in detail or anything, but Chelsea, Man City, Man U, etc. spend a lot more money. And sure, they win more trophies.. but a lot more? Is it really worth it? A fan would definitely say yes, but someone on the board might very well think otherwise.

You are right about the stadium setting the back over the last decade or so, but I think I remember reading the worst of that is now over. They keep talking about their "war chest", but they never really use it.
 
Standard rigged draw. Guardiola to play Barcelona, Ronaldo to play Lisbon. Arsenal to play PSG, Leicester and Spurs protected from the really big fish (though Group E is sneaky hard). Any of those things might happen by chance, but all of them? Not bloody likely.

The new Pot 1 rule let UEFA turn Group B and Group G into dumping grounds like we've never before seen. And have fun in Group C, guys. Sucks to be Celtic.
 
On Group E, Tottenham, Monaco and Leverkusen will be fighting for the 2 qualification spots. Group G could very well be up for grabs. On each of the rest of the groups there are obviously 2 clear favorites...

Edit: Interesting that Bayern and PSV got in the same group as Atlético...They will both attempt to seek revenge for last seasons' eliminations.
 
As always, Madrid gets a rather comfortable group. On the other hand only City seems to be a strong enough contender to Barça in Group C.
 
I think they've reached a bit of a balance in terms of what they achieve each season, how much money that brings in, and how much money was spent to make all that happen. It seems to be a matter of diminishing return for them - they are a moderately successful club, even if they don't really win many trophies (lately). They're constantly in the top 4 in the Premier League and do decently in the Champions League each season.
Yes, this is the problem. They were held back after 2006 while other clubs surged ahead. Now they'd need to put in a couple hundred millions to be serious contenders for the Champions League, having to fight PSG, City, Chelsea as well as Real Madrid, Atlético Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich… how do you compete against those budgets? Notice that FFP does not force the already-enriched clubs to, well, ‘disarm’ for want of a better word. The last time Arsenal got far in the CL was a semifinals appearance in 2009.

And yes, I still don't grasp how Arsenal did not take advantage of the particularly poor 2015–16 season in the League, but… well, none of the other clubs did so in any case.
Standard rigged draw. Guardiola to play Barcelona, Ronaldo to play Lisbon. Arsenal to play PSG, Leicester and Spurs protected from the really big fish (though Group E is sneaky hard). Any of those things might happen by chance, but all of them? Not bloody likely.

The new Pot 1 rule let UEFA turn Group B and Group G into dumping grounds like we've never before seen. And have fun in Group C, guys. Sucks to be Celtic.
Sometimes it's better for a mid-range team to get drawn with Barcelona or Bayern or another such big club who can realistically be expected to do 13 points or more in the group; this means that the other clubs get squat and all you have to do is edge them out at home games. 3-1-2 or 3-0-3 and you're through to the knockout stages where you can speculate on away goals (see Juventus in 2014–15).

And on the other hand, of course, with Blatter himself having admitted that the so-called ‘sortings’ are not random, what can we expect?
As always, Madrid gets a rather comfortable group. On the other hand only City seems to be a strong enough contender to Barça in Group C.
Please, when has the glorious Real Madrid Football Club ever had a favourable draw except in, say, every knockout stage the last two times they won the trophy?
 
United scares me. Pogba hasn't been anything much so far and they still look like they'd be in the last 8 of the Champions League if they were in it.

Right now, I'd suggest that they just enter the bench and young players in Europa and focus on the league. They probably won't do that because of the equipment contract, but if you ask me they've got a squad that's threatening the league and splitting duty makes it a lot less likely that they win it or qualify in 4th.
 
Winning the EL also qualifies for CL, right?
 
Winning the EL also qualifies for CL, right?

Yes, but it's something of a crap shoot. Not only do you have to march through four rounds of knockout home-and-home, you have to win a one-off final. Gambling for resurrection here makes sense if you're buried mid-table and have some quality (see: Roberto Martinez's Everton). I'm not saying that all squads should just write Europa off; most of them shouldn't.

By comparison, if you're good enough that you're confident in finishing top-4 in a major European league then there's a lot less variance involved in that approach. If you've got enough skill, then betting on the league makes more sense then betting on the long-shot CL place. I think that United will screw this calculus up because I think that management isn't smart enough to figure it out (for which I am thankful), but if I were them I'd write off Europa today and double down on the league.
 
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