football thread No11

Discussion in 'Sports Talk' started by Carras Dad, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Tonight is the biggest game in my club's history.

    I can't focus on work at all

    Already booked my greyhound bus ticket for the home game this weekend. If they return home North American champions, I want to be there welcoming them back! And if they lose, it will be disappointing, but it is going to be a very tough game and they are (at this stage) not the favourites anymore. So I accept chances are it won't happen, but let's do this!!!
     
  2. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    Remember to breathe deep and slow, warpus. Deep and slow.
    He appears to have stepped into Suárez's shoes.

    Waait, I've just read that Oxlade-Chamberlain is out for months and he won't be able to play again until after the World Cup.
    ‘Lucky’. It gets boring if every single stage of the competition will have this sort of ‘luck’ be a feature. I don't know how it is in Norway, but UEFA consistently advertise their flagship competition as being more stylish, fairer, etc.… and we get ridiculous things such as Real Madrid's two offside goals last year, Chelsea-Barcelona in 2009, Milan being allowed to play in 2006-07 even after their egregious matchfixing had been proven in court, who, after Borussia Dortmund's bus was bombed on the way to the stadium by somebody who admitted he had money invested in gambling against them, still forced the match to be played the following day… and we end up laughing at how hypocritical they are. :(
     
  3. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    That's tinfoiling it pretty hard. Yes there is corruption within the huge organisations that is Fifa and UEFA, some of it has probably gone right to the top. But not every wrong ref call is the result of someone being bought and paid. That incorrect offside call was a pretty hairy situation and I had to watch it three times in slo-mo before figuring out.
     
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  4. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    How justified are Vrsaljko's yellow cards ? I'm watching Marseille
     
  5. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    Watching ARS-ATL. Both yellows were 100% justifiable. Neither extremely ugly or anything but perfectly fair bookings.

    Complete domination so far. Surely Arsenal can't throw this away? Or is that exactly what Arsenal is capable of this year?
     
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  6. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    It's what Arsenal is capable of every year...
     
  7. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    lolololol
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    Well, Xenforo's just deleted me several hundred words on the FIFA corruption issue. I'll try and rewrite it tomorrow (cross fingers).
    Both justified. The ref should've kept the same standards later on, but then Atlético might have been down to nine men.
    It was pathetic. Atlético Madrid deserved to lose by at least two goals.
    Arsenal do miracles even in this age (see beating Olympiakós 3-0 in Athens after losing 2-3 at home a couple years ago), but still.
     
  9. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Suspect they may figure out this the hard way, but we shall see. Arsene has got a lot of criticism for the board's failings and until the last couple of years have done a good job at keeping the club competitive. I wonder what he does next. He seems to live and breathe for football, so not sure he'll retire.

    In any case it will be interesting to see who takes over, and if the board will allow the spending needed to improve the pretty dire squad.
     
  10. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    It almost got a little too interesting at the end there. Salah was switched off though. That won't do against Real. It annoys me how random handballing seems to be judged. IMO not a penalty.
     
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  11. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    I think the ref blew the whistle knowing that he'd end the game right after the penalty
     
  12. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    The very last one? I agree with AdrienIer. It was awarded because at the time it didn't matter. At 0-0 Liverpool should've gotten a penalty and Roma should've gotten one early in the second half.
    Yesterday Bayern Munich weren't awarded a very obvious penalty (Marcelo admitted/bragged about the handball after the match), same as Dortmund in the group stages and Juventus in the return leg of their quite odd tie.

    :shake:


    Now, on corruption and tinfoiling… I'm trying to rewrite the key points of my lengthy post that Xenforo ate during the weekend.
    The thing is that FIFA/UEFA/etc. are not as all-powerful as they are. However, they do provide the environment and profit from it. At all levels. Currently football is used for laundering drug cartels' money. They buy players through shell companies and holders and sell them and then it's clean money. Which just follows up from the 1980s when Colombian and Mexican clubs were under the ‘patronage’ of the Medellín, Cali, etc. cartels (they still are, in more covert ways). Now clubs can be bought by any despotic dynast, embezzling president-for-life, or regular corrupt businessman/oligarch too!

    Football junior divisions in South America have also devolved into centres of child trafficking. The ongoing scandal in Argentina involves several clubs, a former federal judge, trade union leaders, and who knows whom or what else.

    As for the matches themselves… it's open knowledge that Ireland's officials were offered a few million on the quiet by UEFA. (there's a chunk of examples missing) Every single World Cup has several teams eliminated on account of refereeings not being up to either the technical or the ethical standards of the competition. Each WC is awarded to a country that is accused of bribery (especially obvious when Russia and Qatar were awarded 2018 and 2022 in one sitting!). Brazil 2014 had a lot of workers killed. FIFA didn't complain. What they did do was buy their own tickets and tout them themselves. Which got on YouTube but nobody bothered to check.
    FIFA always negotiates immunity for its officials while in a country that hosts a World Cup -in advance. They also hold that national governments cannot interfere in the running of their member associations, which is a juridical travesty. Why would they need such protection? Why would they stay in Switzerland of all places, by the way?
    Sepp Blatter himself admitted in an interview that the WC draws are fixed before the actual ceremony. Maybe that's why they want immunity?

    Every single club continental tournament in FIFA's two strongest federations (UEFA and CONMEBOL) has seen teams eliminated, every single year, on dubious refereeing calls. (there's a chunk of examples missing, but I had Chelsea-Barcelona in '09, Real Madrid this year and the last and also against Galatasaray in '13, the whole of Calciopoli and how AC Milan were allowed into the Champions League anyway because Berlusconi was in power in Italy, over the pond we have Atlético Nacional in 2016 and São Paulo in 2012 as the most recent example).
    At this point it cannot be said that it's only because of tragic mistakes that in no way affect the result of the game. There's people making money off this and there's people dying. And the teams that should win are told they should not win and we're told that this is all fair and as should be.
     
  13. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    So no final trophy for grand old man Wenger. Too bad, was hoping they'd take it. How was the game? I didn't see it.

    @Takhisis: I hear you and I share your concern. One of the most destructive mechanics of corruption is that we lose faith in the systems affected by it. When the corrupt are not properly dealt with we become suspicious of everyone involved and eventually grow apathetic. One of the many reasons corruption is hard to combat.
     
  14. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    Ref in Salzburg was awful. He didn't call the most obvious hand I've ever seen, which would have given the game to Marseille, but Marseille's goal came from a corner that should have been a goal kick. It didn't affect the outcome in the end but it shows how bad refs are currently.
     
  15. Serutan

    Serutan Eatibus Anythingibus

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    So do you lot think VAR will ultimately be good, bad, or indifferent in terms of its effect on the games? Feel free to include the disruption factor as well as whether or not it will get calls right more often than now.
     
  16. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    Given how it has implemented I'll say it's business as usual. The refs here have proved that the system works as intended (by FIFA) by ignoring blatant handballs and kicks. And there will probably be an officially unofficial set of instructions limiting how many times per match it will be awarded so that the TV broadcasters don't get too edgy.
     
  17. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    So Atlético Madrid win mostly by showing up and letting the other team bottle it, just as they did against Arsenal… they won 3-0 against a team that should have had at least two players sent off (Luiz Gustavo and Clinton Njie) which makes me suspect that there were instructions to have zero red cards so as not to set a bad precedent. In fact, the ESPN commentators mentioned that ever since they rebranded the competition as ‘Europa League’ there have been zero red cards in all finals.
     
  18. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    Marseille only has 5 players good enough for a game like this, so when the most important one out of those 5 has to leave the pitch on injury there's no hope left.

    I wonder if the last red card in a final was Barthez in Marseille-Valencia 2004 ?
     
  19. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    For Europa League/UEFA Cup, maybe. In a Champions League final, now… the last I remember was Sol Campbell in '06 but I think there was one more…
     
  20. RockTheCazbah87

    RockTheCazbah87 Pacal's pal

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    You're thinking of Jens Lehmann... Campbell's header put Arsenal 1-0 up before Eto'o and Belletti scored. :sad:

    I think it entirely depends on how much FIFA (and each regional governing body) is willing to commit to implementing it. If they can support it fully over the course of a number of years, I can see it changing the game in a positive way. It'll never work if the implementation is inconsistent and riddled with double standards. This is FIFA we're talking about, mind you...
     

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