football thread No11

[Takhisis]

Well, with all the lobbying from Adidas, Nike and the rest… who's behind Ribéry? It is, as Dalglish said, all about that fantastic new kit.

 

[MCdread]

When did this idea that Ribéry is the unmatched genius of Bayern, the leader, the guy who carried them over the line and more than anyone guided them to glory, etc. emerge? It certainly is accepted wisdom now, but would be interesting to track its development.
(Must have be similar to the process that anointed - or should have anointed - Sneyder in 2010)
In any case, Ribéry was third, behind Messi...

P.S.: The 'team of the year' is a joke, as always. The Balon d'Or itself isn't too far behind of course.

 

[Quackers]

I thought Robben was the more decisive winger than Ribery for Bayern (scored in the CL final). I'm sure Gucumatz can shed light on whether Arjen Robbon was the better player over the course of the season.

 

[Takhisis]

Robben was more noticeable because he scored a lot of goals, but Ribéry is one of those players who play very well and make their teammates play better.

Apparently FIFA has not tallied the votes correctly…

 

[BirraImperial]

Ribéry had 25 assists in 2013, his role was not as noticeable as CR7 or Messi, but he was very important for Bayern. Robben did score some goals that were crucial, but he spent some time injured, which in my opinion lessened his chances. The fact that CR7 won with a 3% margin suggests that extending the voting deadline clearly played in his benefit.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Indeed, MCDread. Ribery's role as Bayern's token superstar hasn't been justified by my viewings of Bayern games, though I am far from being a German football connoisseur.

 

[Takhisis]

When did this idea that Ribéry is the unmatched genius of Bayern, the leader, the guy who carried them over the line and more than anyone guided them to glory, etc. emerge? It certainly is accepted wisdom now, but would be interesting to track its development.
(Must have be similar to the process that anointed - or should have anointed - Sneyder in 2010)

Hmmmm. I wouldn't know about that. 2010 had Sneijder's season in Mourinho's Inter, a team that tried to avoid playing football whenever possible and eventually paid for it, (remember the 2-5 they got from Schalke the following year), and the second half of the year had a resurgent Messi who eventually won a Double again with Barça.

In any case, Ribéry was third, behind Messi...

With all the team captains complaining about their votes being changed, I don't know what is true and what isn't. But I do know who was my favourite player of the year. And, of course, we also have the ridiculous situation of Super Zlatan having scored the best goal of 2013 in 2012.

 

[MCdread]

Hmmmm. I wouldn't know about that. 2010 had Sneijder's season in Mourinho's Inter, a team that tried to avoid playing football whenever possible and eventually paid for it, (remember the 2-5 they got from Schalke the following year), and the second half of the year had a resurgent Messi who eventually won a Double again with Barça.

That's not the point.* The point is a lot of people jumped on Sneijder's bandwagon at the time (here's one out of dozens of examples). The logic was Inter won everything (and Holland did well), so the player who's perceived by the media and fans as being the most flamboyant in the team gets to be paraded as the "token superstar", as Pangur Bán described it, and the treble winning team's nominee for Ballon d'Or. Ignoring the fact the performance of said player might not have been so extraordinary or so much better than that of some of his team mates.
Sneijder's case was lazier, granted, because Diego Milito was much more important and decisive at the time, but was a 30 year old late bloomer the press didn't know much about.

Ribéry is probably Bayern's best (attacking) player at least, though only marginally more important than Robben, Muller, Schweinsteiger (last year). And only rises above Lahm because defenders don't get much love.

And Bayern was of course, and by far, the team of the year. But that doesn't automatically translate into Ribéry being the extraordinary individual performer of the year. And it's not like this is the first time something like this happens. The history of this award is littered with similar examples.

I'm actually a big fan of Ribéry, ever since he burst into prominence at Marseille in 2005/06 or so, but unfortunately for him and a bunch of others they share a football era with 2 all time greats of monstrous stature, who consistently have incredible individual seasons (unless they're injured). And one of those two, the one who won this year, is himself unfortunate to share his peak years with Messi. Tough luck.

With all the team captains complaining about their votes being changed, I don't know what is true and what isn't. But I do know who was my favourite player of the year. And, of course, we also have the ridiculous situation of Super Zlatan having scored the best goal of 2013 in 2012.

Yeah, and Mourinho and a few team captains/coaches, etc. complained of the same last year, and someone probably complained in previous years. And it's probably not 100% made up. Which leads to me to conclude I can't believe I wrote all these lines to comment on an award, and the shenanigans that come with it, I have little respect for.


* That Inter tried not to play football is a matter of simplistic opinion/prejudice, but maybe you should re-watch a few of their games.
The thrashing by Schalke happened in the next year and season, when Mourinho was long gone (since you mentioned him).
The resurgence of Messi in the latter part of the year applies equally to Ronaldo this year.
And finally, the Liga-CL double happened, of course, in 2011, 6 months after those awards. If Real Madrid wins a double this May, will it retroactively justify Ronaldo's performances in the 2013 calendar year?

 

[Quackers]

Cortese looks set to leave which sets up a pleasant negative spiral of destruction. Poch has said he won't stay if Cortese leaves and several players like Luke Shaw will pursue moves if the chairman goes. It could be steel ball brinkmanship in some battle with Katherine Liebherr (the actual owner of the club) over the long term future of the club and his contract; or it may be completely genuine and he wishes to run a club overseas.

Anyway, this may spell the end of our glorious last few years at Southampton

 

[Quackers]

On Mourinho's style of football: I never got the hate. They played good football at times, still a million times more exciting than the borefest that is tiki taka. I think a well executed counter attack is one of the most thrilling things in football and Mourinho encouraged a lot of that. In the season RM won La Liga they scored the most goals of any season up to that point, hardly boring is it?

However, whenever Mourinho is 1-0/2-0 up against a good side he will always play conservatively even as early as the 70th minute, keeping in a firm defensive shape, substituting defensive minded players onto the pitch and that can be dull.

 

[Mise]

I love watching Mourinho's teams play. The organisation is spectacular, like watching a ballet directed by a drill sergeant.

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah, and Mourinho and a few team captains/coaches, etc. complained of the same last year, and someone probably complained in previous years. And it's probably not 100% made up. Which leads to me to conclude I can't believe I wrote all these lines to comment on an award, and the shenanigans that come with it, I have little respect for.

Hahahahah! Well, such is the life of the football fan.

On Mourinho's style of football: I never got the hate. They played good football at times, still a million times more exciting than the borefest that is tiki taka. I think a well executed counter attack is one of the most thrilling things in football and Mourinho encouraged a lot of that. In the season RM won La Liga they scored the most goals of any season up to that point, hardly boring is it?

However, whenever Mourinho is 1-0/2-0 up against a good side he will always play conservatively even as early as the 70th minute, keeping in a firm defensive shape, substituting defensive minded players onto the pitch and that can be dull.

I love watching Mourinho's teams play. The organisation is spectacular, like watching a ballet directed by a drill sergeant.

Yes, he can and does have his moments of tactical brilliance. His being conservative can be forgiven… What I completely despise is all the gamesmanship that goes into his games (players having themselves sent off on purpose, tactical fouls, etc.) the fact that the referees always favour him (especially at Real Madrid), and his terrible arrogance. And that he always manages clubs with a bazillion euros' worth of budget and keeps claiming that everyone is against him.

 

[Quackers]

Mourinho got his players sent off on purpose? Thats nonsense. He would instruct them, and other clubs do this too, to get the 3rd yellow card (over the course of the competition) in the 5th CL game, so they won't be banned for the first knock out round.
Also, you cannot blame Mourinho for professional fouls thats the player's responsibility. It is cheating plain and simple but they will be punished.

 

[Takhisis]

The first part is gamesmanship. The second… no, they aren't punished (didn't you follow his Real Madrid side?), and his players don't tend to do the same under other managers. Compare his Real Madrid to the current one, or Chelsea pre-2004 and post-2008.

 

[warpus]

Ribery is good, but I feel like he won pretty much because people were fed up with Messi and Ronaldo being the only serious contenders. aka I don't think he was actually the best player in Europe when he won that "best player in Europe" award

 

[Gucumatz]

Ribéry had 25 assists in 2013, his role was not as noticeable as CR7 or Messi, but he was very important for Bayern. Robben did score some goals that were crucial, but he spent some time injured, which in my opinion lessened his chances. The fact that CR7 won with a 3% margin suggests that extending the voting deadline clearly played in his benefit.

Plus Robben wasn't really even a starter for much of the season with Heynckes. Only once Kroos went down with injury did he stop being a super sub. There were rumors Robben wanted out too because he was being treated as a bench player, but the arrival of Pep changed that and gave him a 2nd chance to be a starting 11 player at Bayern again.

I am personally of the mind that Ronaldo, Messi, nor Ribery deserved the Balon d'Or, but rather that honor belonged to Lahm especially for the massive improvement in Bayern's defense in 2013. Easily the best player in the world at his position for years Lahm also has shown his more offensive chops too over the years with his forward runs and especially this year where Pep actually moved him to defensive midfield in most games so far.

As for the World XI... just like the Ballon d'Or its a popularity contest really. I may be biased but I certainly believe that Alaba and Schweini definitely deserve 100% to be on the FIFA world 11. Schweini I think is one of the most underrated midfielders in the world when it comes to these kind of "popularity contests" considering the once in a generation talent he is. The fact that this is also the first time Lahm has been in the World XI I feel like says something about the bias favoring Barcelona+Real Madrid players

 

[Wrymouth3]

What do you guys think about this run in the FA Cup that Conference National side Kidderminster Harriers is making? I think that if they end up besting Sunderland in the next match, I sincerely believe they can make one of the greatest upset moments in all of sports history by going further. I know this isn't as exciting as say a team of welders, accountants, and CFC members making a run in the FA Cup with a 21th tier team, but still.

 

[IrishDragon]

Ribéry deserved it far more than CR7. He won 5 titles with Bayern, CR7 none. Ribéry also won the Bundesliga player of the year, French player of the year, UEFA player of the year...Of course, this award is nothing more than a popularity contest.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the award was for player of the year, not team of the year.
If I was a manager and was given money to sign one superstar, Ribery would be a distant third behind Messi and Ronaldo. Actually he'd be further back than that.

 

[Mise]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the award was for player of the year, not team of the year.
If I was a manager and was given money to sign one superstar, Ribery would be a distant third behind Messi and Ronaldo. Actually he'd be further back than that.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the award was for player of the year in 2013, not the player you would sign if you were managing a football team in 2014.

 

[IrishDragon]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the award was for player of the year in 2013, not the player you would sign if you were managing a football team in 2014.

What if you could go back in time to 2013 knowing what you know now and sign one player for your team for the year? Either way no way he played as good as Messi or Ronaldo, despite what his team won.