[For Siam sake!] SIAM LOOKS WEIRD

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People come on these threads and criticize another culture because their opinion is that we do things better. Your opinion is that you prefer to live in your country with very few restrictions and a lot of freedom. This is perfectly acceptable and valid, however, this is just a preference, an opinion.

If people in Thailand think differently, their opinion is 100% as valid as yours, there is no argument to say that they should change to become like us unless there are objective reasons.

Therefore, coming on here and stating that you think their culture is wrong and that they should change, is in my opinion, incredibly rude. Did they criticize our culture?
This is also an incredibly redundant argument as it can be applied to absoloutely anything. "People who supported Mao believed that Mao's Governemnt was great, therefore you can't criticise it", "People believe what Al Quaeda are doing is for the greater good, therefore they can't be criticised". Or, indeed, "50% or more of the Thai population supported Thaskin and believed that to be the better regime, therefore you can't force them to change, and criticising them is rude".

Oh, and to the above poster. No, it isn't like Bismark looks like Hitler at all, Hitler is universally accepted as totally evil, and doesn't have the support of around half a country. Oh, and Hitler wasn't German.
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Basically, this entire Thread has been complaining that the Thai leader is misrepresented because he has the same face as someone who may or may not be evil depending on subjective opinion, but was definately Thai, and therefore of the correct race... The only valid argument in this thread is that of the psuedo-Hindu statue, which may be misrepresentative of Thai culture.
 
Oh, and to the above poster. No, it isn't like Bismark looks like Hitler at all, Hitler is universally accepted as totally evil, and doesn't have the support of around half a country. Oh, and Hitler wasn't German.

Sadly incorrect.

Wikipedia said:
Some people have referred to Hitler's legacy in neutral or favourable terms. Former Egyptian President Anwar El Sadat spoke of his 'admiration' of Hitler in 1953, when he was a young man, though it is possible he was speaking in the context of a rebellion against the British Empire.Louis Farrakhan has referred to him as a "very great man". Bal Thackeray, leader of the right-wing Hindu Shiv Sena party in the Indian state of the Maharashtra, declared in 1995 that he was an admirer of Hitler. Friedrich Meinecke, the German historian, said of Hitler's life that "it is one of the great examples of the singular and incalculable power of personality in historical life".
 
Altaria, just to be clear, I was talking about the control exerted over the Thai people, and their culture with respect to their king.

The Thaskin thing is out of my range.

If this is also what you were referring too. You're argument is very flawed. There are many objective remarks which can be made as to why Al Qaeda or Mao are in a completely different realm.

I would say, these two people caused harm to many more people than those who supported them. They also caused harm to completely innocent people. The Thai king sets laws and those who break them are accordingly punished. These things are not arbitrary.
 
It's more like making, say, Washington look like Bush. And, for the statue, giving Egypt an Ethiopian stele. It just looks severely out-of-place.
 
Applying Western standards to other cultures doesn't always work.
Censorship is censorship. Dictatorship is dictatorship. Propaganda is propaganda. Cult of personality is cult of personality. No matter what culture adopts these things.
 
Censorship is censorship. Dictatorship is dictatorship. Propaganda is propaganda. Cult of personality is cult of personality. No matter what culture adopts these things.

And laziness to do things correctly is laziness to do things correctly. :lol:
 
You do realize that state and nation are synonyms? The distinction is very fine, and I would be tempted to say nonexistent except you are using them to mean different things so obviously in your mind there is some distinction between the two. But I'd be lying if I told I knew what the distinction was.

IMO there's an important distinction between "state" and "nation". I use "state" to refer primarily to the country, particularly its political structure and its government. "Nation" is more flexible and ill-defined and I use it to refer to the people and their culture. The two overlaps to some degree, obviously, and in the case of Thailand for example successive government have tried very hard to link the two concepts as one. However, while Thai people generally do not have a problem with criticism of the Thai state, you'll find people would react differently to negative perceptions of the Thai nation, and especially of the "Father of the Nation", which is the King.

Basically, this entire Thread has been complaining that the Thai leader is misrepresented because he has the same face as someone who may or may not be evil depending on subjective opinion, but was definately Thai, and therefore of the correct race...

This has been said before, but he looks more Chinese than Thai.

The only valid argument in this thread is that of the psuedo-Hindu statue, which may be misrepresentative of Thai culture.

It is. IMO the Ramkamhaeng Stelae would be best in its place. That's what most people associate with King Ramkamhaeng. Additionally, heads are considered "high" in Thai culture and that sort of sculpture, Hindu or not, would not feature as lawn ornamentation in any Thai garden.
 
Well...This thread is gonna be only destructive:deadhorse:

I think that I will just stop posting for now

and wait for the response from Firaxis


For me, all I want now is the removal of hindu statue

and replace it with Ram's stele that is O.K.

(If the developer don't have time, they could just do this)


I don't want to ignite any problem anyway

The worst case that I dont wish to happen is that

any of us send this thread to the Pantip board

(the most famous discussion board in every field in Thailand)

or the PAD (People Alliance for Democracy/yellow shirts)

who is the real enemy of Thaksin

and have almost the same supporters as the red shirts


That's gonna be bad,since newspaper gonna play with this topic

and Thailand will be at war again


So, just don't start war in this place


If I have done anything wrong to any body,I apologize for that.:religion:


If nothing could be changed, I want every one to play/befriend/fight Siam

with happiness and joy like all gamers should do, not only hatred like


"Come on!!! Mr. Ram from that xxxxing Thai nation that complain useless things

in Civfanatic!, I will crush you into pieces ,rape your women, pillage your lame

improvement and bribe all little states that

support you, and finally cut all your trees!!! So you can't use your special building

HAHA HaHAHAH!!!Xxxx "


That is gonna SUCK:(

I will not give up correcting Siam anyway, but I am going to do it softly

and try to compromise as much as I can :goodjob:

If you have any problems about Siam or Thai I will answer it ASAP

Thanks in advance
 
I would like to say that this thread makes for a really interesting read. Aside from the issue at hand, which is the appearance of Siam in the game, I think the discourse between Eastern and Western ideologies and values is facinating. Thanks for sharing your views and I hope this issue will be resolved before the game is released. :)
 
I, for one, am thrilled to see Siam finally represented in a post 2000 Civ game! I used to come here and debate quite alot for Siam's inclusion and gerneral lack of SEA representation. I used "Pratputajao" as my account name but have since changed it due to it being disrepectful to the faith of our Thai friends (it means Buddha...yeah not real smart on my part). After giving a good debate as for why I would rather see Siam over Vietnam or Khmer in the expansion for C4 (Firaxis went with Khmer) I didnt think I would ever see Siam in. Its nice to see Thailand given its spot in the game.

SEA has a great history that most peaple know nothing of and after the 13th Cent Siam was usually the most prosporous and powerful civ for most of the time until modern day (as Thailand).
 
If nothing could be changed, I want every one to play/befriend/fight Siam

with happiness and joy like all gamers should do, not only hatred like


"Come on!!! Mr. Ram from that xxxxing Thai nation that complain useless things

in Civfanatic!, I will crush you into pieces ,rape your women, pillage your lame

improvement and bribe all little states that

support you, and finally cut all your trees!!! So you can't use your special building

HAHA HaHAHAH!!!Xxxx "
I'll drop the issue and stop arguing, but I can't guarentee I won't utterly destroy Siam in game if I have to :p.
 
I'm Thai who happens to visit this thread although I didn't play this game.

- Ramkamhang's face is really like Mr. Thaksin and I think it'll make the red shirts buy this game and yellow shirts hate this game. There are some way to get money from both sides but that's developer's problem.

- Even it isn't like him, we'll see it'll get banned or not. Thailand monarchy has many influence in this country due to propaganda and censorship. You can go to jail around 3-15 years for spraying the king's portrait. Let's think about Mao's propaganda in smaller scale (900m ppl vs 60m ppl).

- Even I don't love the king but it doesn't matter because I can found many Thai people who don't worship him. They just don't say it to stranger because ... fear, I guess.

- If anyone of you happens to go to Thailand, just pretends you love the king and you'll be fine. Also don't forget your money, it can break the law here ^_^
 
If I have to pretend to worship a king to not be jailed in a country, I will simply never visit that country.
 
If I have to pretend to worship a king to not be jailed in a country, I will simply never visit that country.

:)

You don't have to pretend to worship our king in my country.

Many tourists visit Thailand, and they don't even have to say they love our king.

It is funny that someone say every one has to worship the king.

All you need to do is to respect him, not like the king, but like a man.

Most of the foreign prisoners who are jailed in Thailand are the drug dealers

,not the ones who violate Lese Majeste.
 
If I have to pretend to worship a king to not be jailed in a country, I will simply never visit that country.

Well all I can say to you is that you will miss one hell of a country by not visiting....your loss.

But actually you dont have to worship the king. You dont have to think about the king. Just dont disrepect thai people (the VAST majority love the king greatly) by speaking ill of him in public. Thats it. I dont really know why you would want to as he really is a great man and has done much to help the peaple. If you said something ill of the king you probably wouldnt have to worry about being arrested though you may end of with a bloody nose.

Yes, there are those who are upset at the *elite* (which the king is natually one of) but they are a minority of mainly rural poor from the North east (Issan) and some from the North (Chiang mai where Taksin is from) who are upset about the Elites ability to control government (same in all countries though) and about the majority of money going to the Bangkok region.

This is an internal political strugle that doesnt so much concern non Thais.
 
Sounds like history is repeated. When the Iroquois were introduced in Civ3, they gave them wrong city names (even the wrong capital), great people from other nations, and a Mounted Warrior - to a people that didn't ride horses! And the Iroquois live right among them, so guess how much they care about accurately depicting a culture from another corner of the planet ...
 
Sounds like history is repeated. When the Iroquois were introduced in Civ3, they gave them wrong city names (even the wrong capital), great people from other nations, and a Mounted Warrior - to a people that didn't ride horses! And the Iroquois live right among them, so guess how much they care about accurately depicting a culture from another corner of the planet ...

Exactly. Firaxis, please don't do the same crap to Thai people as you did with Iroquis in Civ3 or Native Americans in Civ4 (Poverty Point as a city name, yeah I know its a place but have some respect mmk?), because things like that are kind of embarrassing...
 
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