For the interst of Deity players, please no sarcastic responses.

[ColinTH]

For the past week I have been winning Deity archipelago OCC's playing as a different Nation each day.

For me pre patch Deity OCC Cultural victory was not possible because of my pc limitatios.

Through trial and error post patch, I have finally worked out what my pc limitations are. I always wanted to play OCC for a culture victory on Deity. I used the following criteria

I have been playing -

small map (random each time)
marathon
archipelago
Deity
Nine opponents (not five)
12 City States (as normal)
no ruins
Legendary start (AI civs get the same benefit)
Policy save enabled
Every victory type enabled.

I have been playing for a culture victory only.

Results.

Arabia - win year 1857 - I know I could do better (my first attempt).

France - win 1826 - A walk in the park.

India - win 1849- I don't like seeing Gandi in my mirror!

Polynesia - win 1884 - Arabia were the dominant force and were at war with me from 1,000 AD until finish (major hindrance on finnish time).

Babylon - win 1897- I got obsessed with the Science and didn't do enough with the culture, I am sure I could do better!

England - Win 1848 - I enjoyed this the most because of embarked unit movement.

Polynesia - Win (with ruins and no barbarians) 1760. This was a great fun - victory never in doubt - I built a heck of alot of wonders, because I was no1 in science! I played this one for a brain relief break!

Except for Babylon, I never even tried to build any wonders pre renaisance - some of you might disagree but that is my way of playing!

I will continue on a daily basis.

I have kept all the game saves as potential screen shots (thumb nails), I am not sending any of them unless requested (sending personal achievement type screen shots seems to upset some forum users)!

I can't send a screen shot, I am computer illiterate, (my son has to do it for me).

I would like to thank forum members for the knowledge I have gained.

Good gaming all.

America - 1821 Great start location, I even had a meandering river with Eight workable tiles (rare for archipelago). I never got attacked in the whole game. Siam and Greece were among the random opposition, and one of the other civs took it upon themselves to wipe out City States Ha Ha!

 

[wcbarney]

I won't be sarcastic, 'cause I've only ever won Diety on duel maps. Good show!

 

[ColinTH]

Aztec - Lost 1799 - Diplo victory for Persia - There was nothing the remaining seven of us could do about it. Darius had World domination with a points score of 3256 next best being 826.

I was only fourteen turns away from completing the Utopia project (golden age coming to an end), so maybe sixteen turns away.

The reason I started this thread was in the hopes there are other forum members who like to play a similar type of game, then maybe we can openly discuss tactics etc. I have one tactic in particular that could be unique, and it is debatable whether it is good or bad.

I am pleased to have lost one, it kind of brings me back down to earth!

 

[vexing]

since you have policy saving enabled, which branches/policies do you take and when? do you take none until renaissance then take the left side of freedom?

 

[ColinTH]

since you have policy saving enabled, which branches/policies do you take and when? do you take none until renaissance then take the left side of freedom?

I take all of tradition including Oligarchy, then as you say I take the left side of freedom next followed by the right side. The only time I by pass the option to take a policy is when I am almost finnished researching Philosophy, reason being I want the free temple.

Tradition - all
Freedom - all
first commerce
Then play it by ear.

The other two Policy trees are Order and Piety.

When I played as Polynesia without ruins I substituted commerce for Honor, which I started with.

 

[Randall Turner]

The reason I started this thread was in the hopes there are other forum members who like to play a similar type of game, then maybe we can openly discuss tactics etc. I have one tactic in particular that could be unique, and it is debatable whether it is good or bad.

I am pleased to have lost one, it kind of brings me back down to earth!

Hey, Colin, I play semi-similar games. I've only played one Marathon game with an Archipelago map, though. Most of the time a Continents setup (my standard config) will have a strong naval component, though - and I'm curious.

What's your "debatable" tactic? Even if it's situational, I'm interested. Play enough games, the "situation" will probably come up.

 

[ColinTH]

Hey, Colin, I play semi-similar games. I've only played one Marathon game with an Archipelago map, though. Most of the time a Continents setup (my standard config) will have a strong naval component, though - and I'm curious.

What's your "debatable" tactic? Even if it's situational, I'm interested. Play enough games, the "situation" will probably come up.

I have worked out a way of getting multiple Great people, I started a thread on the subject months ago, the first time it happened it was a complete surprise. I have taken it to a much higher and controlled level. It may not suit everybody because it involves alot of micro-management.

 

[Randall Turner]

Gonna tell us how?

Not by repeatedly building a national wonder (ie, selling city & rebuilding) is it? That's a known thingie.

 

[ColinTH]

Two pics (thanks son), take a look at the turn, they are consecutive.

 

[MadDjinn]

It's an old thought.

yes you can generate multiple GP on the same turn in one city by having all of them cross the 'finish line' at the same time. But the overall cost for the next GP is increased by the number of GP you get on that turn. So there's no issues.

effective micro is good, given that you can have some decent advantage there if you actually need that many GP in one shot. But it does cost you overall for generating GPs that you might not like. (Ie, if you need 7 GSs and would normally only produce that many during the game, generating a GE + GM + GS on one turn effectively costs you the time to generate the next GSs; so you might get two less)

 

[ColinTH]

It's an old thought.

yes you can generate multiple GP on the same turn in one city by having all of them cross the 'finish line' at the same time. But the overall cost for the next GP is increased by the number of GP you get on that turn. So there's no issues.

effective micro is good, given that you can have some decent advantage there if you actually need that many GP in one shot. But it does cost you overall for generating GPs that you might not like. (Ie, if you need 7 GSs and would normally only produce that many during the game, generating a GE + GM + GS on one turn effectively costs you the time to generate the next GSs; so you might get two less)

This first one was a sinch, you just have to remember to tick the manage your own building box, then as soon as you have built a temple, workshop and market away you go.

It takes me roughly 240 (I have the Hagia Sofia) to produce four GP next time and that is where the real micro management comes in along with the Sisteen Chapel and Kremlin I hope to get, if I miss out on either I have to readjust my planning. I can set off straight away with three GPs, as soon as I research education the Scientists can catch up with two slots.

I can then produce another four in one hit because by then I have the right hand side of the freedom Policy tree. I have done it, but it makes my brain hurt!

I also go for the Louvre which gives me two more artists, very important for a culture game.

 

[vexing]

in this situation i imagine the optimal route would be
build monument - worker,
take tradition, legalism at philosophy, landed elite
save until renaissance, take left two in freedom
save until you build cristo redentor, and then buy a whole bunch.

i suspect the optimal GP generation would be something like pop engineer + artist, then engineer + aritst + scientist and use the scientist for bulbing telegraph.

if you use RA blocking i'd imagine 1500s win is possible.

 

[ColinTH]

in this situation i imagine the optimal route would be
build monument - worker,
take tradition, legalism at philosophy, landed elite
save until renaissance, take left two in freedom
save until you build cristo redentor, and then buy a whole bunch..

This is not far off the way I play in order at least, except for the fact that I only make one Policy save in the whole game and that might be for only three or four turns to get the free temple. Do you play in a similar fashion?

i suspect the optimal GP generation would be something like pop engineer + artist, then engineer + aritst + scientist and use the scientist for bulbing telegraph.

This would give you an earlier start than my example, and it seems like a reasonable way to GP spam. On part two of your sugestion it is only possible from my experience if I can build a windmill, the speed of execution is defined by the least productive one and in my case I never have any Engineer Wonders. You obviously can't go hell for leather early in the game because you will run out of food, but you need variety to get the maths and timing right. Assuming you have an Artist and Scientist Wonder you have the amunition to juggle and achieve your aim.

if you use RA blocking i'd imagine 1500s win is possible.

This is the main reason I started this thread, I would love to hear just how quickly the top players can obtain a culture victory, with maybe a few tips! I love a challenge, and I would like to know what to aim for!

 

[ColinTH]

It's an old thought.

yes you can generate multiple GP on the same turn in one city by having all of them cross the 'finish line' at the same time. But the overall cost for the next GP is increased by the number of GP you get on that turn. So there's no issues.

effective micro is good, given that you can have some decent advantage there if you actually need that many GP in one shot. But it does cost you overall for generating GPs that you might not like. (Ie, if you need 7 GSs and would normally only produce that many during the game, generating a GE + GM + GS on one turn effectively costs you the time to generate the next GSs; so you might get two less)

How I used my sample three -

Great Merchant - nearest CS and I think 1340 gold - RAs 750 so almost two of them which I aquired immediately.
Great Artist - Landmark
Great Engineer - waited a few turns until Education was complete, built the Porcelain tower.
Great Scientist - Researched Acoustics and started building the Sisteen Chapel.

These first three are pretty well tried and tested on my part and I think it works pretty well. I agree with you for later on, GMs are a waste of time, but just to prove it can be done, turn 573 I should be able to get a batch of four GPs out. I have already produced a scientist after the first three. So at 1,500 GP points I will have (hopefully) produced eight Great People. Normally it would be five at that point.

 

[ColinTH]

Here are the next four Great People.

Artist - Landmark
merchant - 1 1/2 RAs
Engineer - Waiting for Cristo Redentor
Scientist - Researched Electricity

I missed the Louvre and Brandenberg Gate, both by a whisker, I wasn't sure where to put the two Artists anyway!

 

[Randall Turner]

I was expecting something "icky". That's a completely reasonable technique, not an exploit at all. Moderate return (overall gain is GP "progress" points in cities with 2nd, 3rd etc GP) for a considerable investment in "attention", plus some tradeoff in optimal specialist assignment.

But it's not unusual for GP to come in "waves" regardless. <shrug>

 

[vexing]

Do you play in a similar fashion?

not at all, i tend to only play hall of fame rules, so i don't play with policy saving enabled nor adjust the # of opponents.

cultural victories on standard speed can happen in the early 1600s without policy saving. marathon + fully abused saving (ie waiting for renaissance for freedom, waiting for cristo for rest) should both speed that up. those however are optimal games where people are successfully trying for stonehenge / oracle and building them or restarting from scratch if they fail. you could choose opponents to minimize both the risks of being declared on and of them building wonders, some generally good opponents for cultural games are washington, wu, napolean, suleiman, askia, caesar, montezuma.

 

[ColinTH]

Gonna tell us how?

Not by repeatedly building a national wonder (ie, selling city & rebuilding) is it? That's a known thingie.

I ignored this to start with because I only play OCC, but what is this exactly, I mean how does it work?

 

[vexing]

you can sell the city you built oxford university in to gain the opportunity to build it again for another free tech.
it's a pretty useless exploit.

 

[ColinTH]

not at all, i tend to only play hall of fame rules, so i don't play with policy saving enabled nor adjust the # of opponents.

cultural victories on standard speed can happen in the early 1600s without policy saving. marathon + fully abused saving (ie waiting for renaissance for freedom, waiting for cristo for rest) should both speed that up. those however are optimal games where people are successfully trying for stonehenge / oracle and building them or restarting from scratch if they fail. you could choose opponents to minimize both the risks of being declared on and of them building wonders, some generally good opponents for cultural games are washington, wu, napolean, suleiman, askia, caesar, montezuma.

Thanks for this, I think I have become very blinkered in my game plan, it's very enlightening to see how you guys maximise policy saving.
Playing Deity I just hardly ever manage to build the Oracle or Stonehenge, so now I don't even try. Playing Archipelago, I never manage to steal an early worker, so all my early efforts are about building farms etc. I prioritise Library and NC of course.
I have made a note of your list of opponents, thanks, I will give them a try next time.

My current Montzuma game, turn 721, I have produced another batch of four Specialists, thats twelve in total. Now I will set them on a free for all, but no merchants. I realy should try this tech blocking idea, the RAs are giving me things like Mass Media and Rocketry etc while I am still trying to get the Cristo Redentor!