Foreign Affairs - The Poll of Polls

[Provolution]

Dear Citizen of Japanatica

It is with mixed feelings and with clear reasoning I now post a series of polls in order to help the game progress at some pace at least. Certain verbal partisans has been filibustering (please look up the word, those of you who do not know the word, but are able to figure it out, the rest I do not give a yen for) the decisionmaking process to the extent that we have reached organizational fatigue. Running Japanatica is not such a privilege as it seemed in the outset, thanks to a handful indviduals bent on turning this game into successive, numerous, interruptive, superfluous and derailing polls.

In order to contain some of the damage already imposed by this confused intent and to clarify the Foreign Ministry Offices contract with the people, I will make my positions perfectly clear. I also campaigned on these issues, in order to preempt untimely attacks for individuals that did not support me in the first place, voted against me, I wil follow the will of those that elected me for the office, and for those that agree on the issues I presented.

Foreign Ministry of Japanetica stands for the following term 1

Term 1.

Secure Iron Working and then Iron as first priority
A)Contingency plans,
Conquer Iron
Trade for Iron, if no Iron
Change strategy, go for masonry/construction and dig in.

Under all circumstances, go for the Monarchy route immediately after Iron

Culture and Science
(These are intertwined inseparate, but I kept the above tech route alone).

I will leave it up to the ministers of science and culture to recommend temples where we reach more than 4 pop, and libraries in cities with a very hich commerce production.
Wonders, I think Lighthouse, Oracle, Hanging Gardens and Pyramids make more sense than any other wonder on a world like this. But that is a vote done in a different poll.

Miltary affairs, I will consult the people and the government on all civilization relationships, and give options based on accurate analysis.

Domestic affairs, as Domestic has been very "foreign" with polling procedures, I felt it was necessary to startle the ministry up to develop procedures.
However, we are still short of an effective/fair city localization procedure.

I will cast my tiie breaking vote on any war, peace treaty or trade, jointly with the MA, and TA, and use that privilege based on my mandate.
On ties, no repolling will be done.





These are the traditional duties and powers of all ministers:

"Formulate departmental policies, plans and agendas based on citizen feedback."

Based on the Babylonian decision, I will make those provisions.

"Formulate departmental policies, plans and agendas of their own in the absence of citizen feedback (forum outage, low participation, etc)."

I see that the real problem here is structure, that is why I post the polls, so the polling terror would be put to an end. I let the people decide how many polls I should do on each topic.

"Convey these policies, plans and agendas to the President for play in the game." Already part of my routines.

I will poll all declarations of war and peace treaties following a war, unless otherwise stated, A state of normalcy, which is default, will not be polled.

Mutual protection pacts, trade embargos and rights of passage are too late in the game to have a bearing in term one. So no policies here.

The construction of embassies, placement of spies, spying and espionage will all be presented and polled if I see the need, or I will poll it if enough voices want to do some intelligence tasks.

Now I will put up 5 polls for DG5, deciding the FA Polls for DG5 Term One,

Then I will hear no mention of a sudden poll.

All polls will be closed in 24 hours after they are posted, and there will be no room for changing votes after that, or no chance to ask for a repoll.
I am sorry repoll junkies, I have had it!

 

[Black_Hole]

well mayb u shouldnt post a poll about spyes till we get espionage...

 

[Provolution]

Correct , that is why I left it out

 

[Provolution]

Well, maybe I do exactly that, polling espionage if someone asks for it, I will not filter ANY opinion, I am the loyal servant to the WOTP, if they want me to poll a stone age SETO program I will do that to, as long as the people wants it

 

[Fier Canadien]

This thread should have been named "Not my affair - the mother of all poll".

Realy, it's not to insult or flame anyone, but this is in No way, considering the constitution or any of our past ones, under the power of Foreign to dictate the decision making of other ministries.

However, it is in the power of citizen(s) to do so.

Using 'Foreign Affair' in the title is purely unjustified.

2. The Minister of Foreign Affairs shall be responsible
for matters involving treaties with foreign nations,
as prescribed by law.

Now, do you think it is in the juridiction of Foreign to say this:

Secure Iron Working and then Iron as first priority

Change strategy, go for masonry/construction and dig in.

Under all circumstances, go for the Monarchy route immediately after Iron

In my book, that's the juridiction of Science and Domestic (securing the iron).

I will leave it up to the ministers of science and culture to recommend temples where we reach more than 4 pop, and libraries in cities with a very hich commerce production.
Wonders, I think Lighthouse, Oracle, Hanging Gardens and Pyramids make more sense than any other wonder on a world like this. But that is a vote done in a different poll.

Ah, you will leave it up? It's my juridiction (while Curu is away, untill tomorrow I think (was absent 2 to 7, then 9 to 11)) anyway.

Domestic affairs, as Domestic has been very "foreign" with polling procedures, I felt it was necessary to startle the ministry up to develop procedures.
However, we are still short of an effective/fair city localization procedure.

City localisation is none of your business as Foreign. This has nothing to do with Foreign.

In a thread with official ministry tagging, you should not make claim to the other's juridiction. It's their business, not yours.

Now, if you were saying that as a citizen, I wouldn't have anything to gripe against. However, as you named it 'Foreign affair', I couldn't retain myself.

 

[BCLG100]

i sense it is not a good time to cross provo , anyways i like the idea of having as little polls as possible.

 

[Provolution]

Well Fiend Canadien, we seem to disagree on a number of issues, where I think it is perfectly in line for ALL ministries to develop procedures for integrating policies, and yes, this is also a set of compromsies. And you being a democrat, Fiend, no you are in the tradition of mob rule more in the tradition of Robespierre and other spokespeople usurping the will of the people on their own means. If you want a polling secretary function for the game and not "functional" ministers, that is fine. As long as I am elected FA, I am entitled to work for the issues I campaigned for originally, and it does not take much empathy or insight to recognize your intentions in this direction.

What you so euphemistically refer to as the "power of the Citizen" and "will of the people", concepts you struggle with in your bewildered harangue in capsizing me, is actually based on five things, elections, mandates to fill those elections, laws, the right of people to participate with their opinions and finally right of the people to get the empowered leadership they have bestwoed in a campaign. I see that the other deputies handle this quite well, but you seem to be in turmoil.

Fier, I did not see your critical voices on many other occasions where you should have shown the same fiery defiance and candidness, you seemed perfectly quiet when it was opportune. Now that you smell,frustration, you decide to feast, instead of trying to solve the inherent problems of the system. You are simply here for the fight...

city localization, science path and everything else in the same CIV game has EVERYTHING TO DO with foreign relations, Make no mistake about it.

Iron working decides our military negotiation strength, or if we need to dig in, find another path, develop another city, take it easy with the neighbors and so on.
Monarchy makes us decide if we can go to war or not, due to limited war weariness, and a higher cap on troops. I decide what is my business, as you do, as you cunningly swept the Science Department under your duckling wings in order to gently remove iron working using your Wonder Veto on our science decision you did not like.

How may polls do you need to remove Iron Working and Monarchy, you speculate, as you flame/insult me in order to muster support for your alternative. Or do you do it for kicks my dear Fier. Besides, you are abusing the letter of the constitution in seeking to silence me with your big verbal symbols in your hand. well, Fien, you are not in the Judiciary, and I can see no law stating that I can poll how many polls you want.

Again, all ministries have different ideas about jurisdiction, and if your words held true, you would not meddle to deeply into my affairs either... In fact, most ministries try to cooperate and synergize, and that is what I did with the military and trade, as well as science. That culture is not coordinating at all, you can claim the credit for as Curu is away. That is my two yen.

 

[Chieftess]

Moderator Action: This is a game, so let's just have fun. Stop fighting. If someone posts a poll, fine, let that be the voice of the people. If the advisor doesn't post a poll right in your opinion, then vote him/her out of office during the next elections.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Epimethius]

Thank you Falcon. Provo, you now have a job, which I suggest you do, rather than all of ours. If you have some time left over, RP or something. Just do your job, not ours.

When I meddle in other people's business I do it as a citizen. You should too, rather than tell us as Foreign Affairs how to run Domestic Affairs.

Foreign Ministry of Japanetica stands for the following term 1

The Foreign Ministry is now a political party, with a platform of beliefs, I see. And those beliefs extend beyond their juristiction. Into "foreign" juristictions.

Secure Iron Working and then Iron as first priority
A)Contingency plans,
Conquer Iron
Trade for Iron, if no Iron
Change strategy, go for masonry/construction and dig in.

Now this is a very nice plan. For a citizen. Or maybe Trade. But not FA.

Under all circumstances, go for the Monarchy route immediately after Iron

Tech's job, obviously.

Culture and Science
(These are intertwined inseparate, but I kept the above tech route alone).

I will leave it up to the ministers of science and culture to recommend temples where we reach more than 4 pop, and libraries in cities with a very hich commerce production.
Wonders, I think Lighthouse, Oracle, Hanging Gardens and Pyramids make more sense than any other wonder on a world like this. But that is a vote done in a different poll.

Now I like that you're leaving things to the people whose job it is in the first place, but it sort of implies that you are delegating those powers as FA. Obviously that is not the actual case. And you do actually go on to infringe on the Domestic, Culture, Science, and Gubernatorial juristictions.

Miltary affairs, I will consult the people and the government on all civilization relationships, and give options based on accurate analysis.

Finally, your job. Under the wrong heading.

Domestic affairs, as Domestic has been very "foreign" with polling procedures, I felt it was necessary to startle the ministry up to develop procedures.
However, we are still short of an effective/fair city localization procedure.

That is not your job. While its good that you're concerned, you as FA cannot simply set in and change our job. You could, as a citizen, propose a new way to do it, but you simply cannot tell us how to do it. And don't accuse us of filibustering, because we have been trying our best with a simple system. Your system could take much longer, and certainly relies on having more writing and bureaucracy than most citizens are willing to go through for something so immediately obvious.

The problem is not that you are doing these things, but how. Doing Domestic's job as Foreign is a clear violation of juristiction. Maybe if you'd proposed it as a citizen rather than simply taking it upon yourself to set up the system, it would be better. But the fact is that you have overextended your limits many times now. Maybe you didn't have much to do, but you no longer have that excuse. I haven't seen half as much from you about the Babylonians as about how the job me and Noldodan are doing is bad.

I didn't vote for you as a one man government, I voted for you as Foreign Affairs. What that means is clearly defined in the nomination thread. Perhaps you'd like to read that before you go giving building queues.

EDIT: This was typed before Provo's reply.

 

[Provolution]

Again, yet another hostile post from Epimethius , no surprise , if you were handling the city localization procedure instead of picking on people, you would be doing fine.
at least, I try to take the ball, but you go for the man, and that is maybe why you have already been banned here. You are the kind of human being that go for the kill, but not for the solution, and yes, I have no bearing on the Babylonian case.
FA in this game is a very crippled position, have no doubt about it.

 

[Black_Hole]

Again, yet another hostile post from Epimethius , no surprise , if you were handling the city localization procedure instead of picking on people, you would be doing fine.
at least, I try to take the ball, but you go for the man, and that is maybe why you have already been banned here. You are the kind of human being that go for the kill, but not for the solution, and yes, I have no bearing on the Babylonian case.
FA in this game is a very crippled position, have no doubt about it.

even tho it is a crippled position(it really isnt once we get more civs to talk to) that doesnt mean u can take over jobs from other ministers

 

[eyrei]

Moderator Action: This is going to stop right here. If you have an issue with a leader doing something that is unconstitutional, take it up with the judiciary (sorry Cyc).
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Provolution]

Black_Hole, I took no job for other ministers, I just posted a potential solution.
Where did you get that illusion from.

 

[Epimethius]

I will abide by the Eyrei's action, but I'd just like to say that I was not trying to attack you, I was simply saying that you should do your own job rather than other peoples', and that if you are going to try to propose changes, do so as a citizen. Now that we have met the Babylonians you have no excuse to go beyond your juristiction, especially not before you have done something within it.

While I don't like people proposing to name tribes of barbarians after me, I tried to keep any personal animosity out of that post, which I think I did. That was criticism of your actions as MFA, not mudslinging or insults.

 

[Black_Hole]

city localization, science path and everything else in the same CIV game has EVERYTHING TO DO with foreign relations, Make no mistake about it.

its also the way you talk about it...
sorry if i didnt understand u correctly....

 

[Provolution]

Well , please contact the Judicary and build your case, I would like to see how they handle a PI, CC or whatever they call it, it would be a good test of our new constitution now that all laws are passed. If you are not bringing up the case, I would see it as that you are here to firebrand/blemish me for personal reason, and your arguments leaning on principles, constitutions and terms (WOTP) will be demolished in the public space.

 

[Fier Canadien]

Just to remind Provolution that my problem with this thread is simply that it is tagged as being of the foreign ministry, while it is not in its juridiction.

The thing I wanted to say is that what you do is not the ministry job you were elected for, and that's why the 'foreign affairs' title doesn't belong here.

This is the job of the simple citizen in you. If you were saying that as a citizen, then it would be all right.

However, using the title of Foreign Affairs outside of its juridiction is not.

 

[Provolution]

Well Canadian, you can see numerous other examples in this game where people come with multiple proposals on other issues than their own ministry. I am tired of discussing this, and at some time you may well find jurisprudence and contradiction as important terms for your conceptualization as jurisdiction. Right now, only you whine about it.

 

[Sarevok]

I consider this a plan by a citizen that can lead to some good sucess. If people will stop yelling and actually read the post, perhaps they can see that what is posted here is not some attempt of the FA to take over but showing a clear plan that can lead us to a good future, FA proposed or not.

I do not think insulting Provolution will get anyone anywhere except backwards. I find him to be something out of the ordinary in this DG, and very capable of coming up with very good plans for the future as well as being extremely thorough. Although only being here for 7 terms before this one I have never seen anyone who is that thorough and good at planning. Rare talent should be listened to, not cast aside becasue of jealousy or pretexts due to your own hatred.

- Sarevok
Minister of War

 

[blackheart]

Why does it matter if it says Foreign Ministry or Citizen? Are the government figures skitzo or something? The title doesn't really add anymore weight to the subject. So stop bickering about what to call the proposal and look at it.