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Foreign Policy and General Diplomacy

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by Caledorn, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    I generally agree with this sentiment although sometimes it might make sense to publicly chastise the victor/ally if we think there are gains to be made with other teams and our alliance can survive the hit. It can be a bit of a balancing act of course.

    In this case I know we want to foster good relations with both teams that are warring right now. So offering a bit of public support for the Germans makes sense as long as we make sure to shore up our position with WPC.

    Perhaps 2Metraninja can express his support for WPC the next time he has a chat with them and explain that CFC is frustrated with the Germans riding out the turn timer too. If needed you can say that cav scout likes to be a conciliator or something like that.

    Ideally we want both teams to think we are on their side.
     
  2. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

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    I'd rather not play politics in this matter. Changing the rules in the middle of a war isn't right, plain and simple. Let's wait until after the war to do so.
     
  3. Majic

    Majic Warlord

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    Hi, some thoughts from my lurker point of view. I don't think we should make our decision on what would benefit our most ingame, but what makes moste sense, and what is more fun. Several teams seem to think 48+48h/t is too slow and makes the game unfun.

    As a lurker its annoying when you want the game to move forward and one team refuses to end turn, every turn. They log in 5h before end of turn but log out again without ending turn, and don't log in again befor next turn when they do the same again. I get they need time do discuss things but I also think its disrespectful to the other teams to be the only team left to play every turn.

    Also the ruling from rolo was pretty weird. Whats up with that? Did he even talk to the german team before ruling?
     
  4. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I also think the ruling is weird. If there is something wrong with them doing so, he must make a ruling (e.g. "The turn timer is decreased to 38 or whatever hours"). If nothing is wrong with them, then why this warning?
     
  5. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    btw since rolo has cfc background how other teams will view this new ruling?

    As principle I am usually against changing rules in the middle of competition unless all participants agree and it's clear we have at least 1 veto against shortening/enforcing turns
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    With the current situation, WPC play its turn very fast after the turn switch, so the Germans are given again 48 or so hours and not much more.
     
  7. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    :agree: on all counts, same points were also brought up in UN forum. I also agree that changing rules mid-game should be avoided, but on the other hand Germans are sort of not caring about convenience they cause everybody else, not very nice either. What is worse they admit themselves it was not just a passing problem, it seems more like their strategy

    One think it is rather lame approach, another thing is they should be still able to end at least some turns - they seem to be all in the same time zone, so at least sometimes - like when it is 2 am, turn player is going to bed and turn ends at 6 am -
    they should be able to end turns. So my impression is they never do it because they could not care less about inconvenience they cause others - and that naturally is not creating much sympathy for them.

    Although I also agree with what Majic said that rolo's ruling sounded weird - first he stated that there are no rules that one should end their turn, but later announced Germans would be punished for not doing so?:crazyeye:

    In summary, I would normally agree with our team members calling for protecting the weak (Germans), but since Germans acted without concern for others - and long before the war started - I think we should work with the majority of players - and as Majic pointed out just common sense - to do something about it and not let Germans considerably lower interest in this game. Just my 15:c5gold:
     
  8. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Why does nobody understand what the Germans are doing. If the turn ends 4 hours late due to the time expiring, they have 4 hours more to plan their next turn. It's that simple. (At least this is what I believe) It has nothing to do with not caring for the other teams. Sorry, but that is nonsense.
     
  9. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    *smacks head for missing that all along*
     
  10. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I would have no problem if that was what they were doing - but they say themselves that they lack planning staff and that are just hoping somebody would suddenly have a genius idea what to do:

    So I am just saying I do not think it is very nice of them to make everybody suffer because of "lack of activity of their planning staff". Supporting WPC and the majority also goes with Sommers advice to support the team most likely to win. Unless this is some very smart misinformation on the part of the German team, I do not think they are going to win with such lack of vision and planning. It also agrees with what 2metra observed within the game, with German turnplayer panicking when attacked, even though they were aware WPC is preparing to attack them
     
  11. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    I think the WPC's recent loss of a dog soldier or two reinforces what some people have already said about the Germans- namely that they aren't pushovers and should not be counted out just yet. I suspect this war might drag on a bit longer than WPC hoped for.

    On that note, I find it very interesting how RB has thrown their support firmly behind WPC. They have publicly chastised the Germans for taking long turns and I think this is more to make WPC happy than to speed the game up.

    RB could have several possible motives:

    1. RB wants to pursue a peaceful strategy right now and they are scared of WPC coming after them next. So they make nice with WPC to avoid becoming a target.

    2. They want WPC to think that they are safe and that RB is on their side. WPC then feels comfortable to overextend into German territory and becomes vulnerable to a RB sneak attack.

    3. RB wants to attack us and they want a secure flank with WPC when they eventually attack in our direction.

    Based on what I have heard about RB's power graph it sounds like they are building more units than needed for defense (you guys can correct me if this is wrong) so 2 or 3 seem more likely...
     
  12. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I believe it is exactly the opposite. They dont support WPC, but are mad at ze Germans for slowing the game. But this not make it sure they will support WPC by joining in war against Germans. Someone have said at RB they are known to declare war because of someone slowing the game, so this might be possible scenario too, I just cant believe RB's high command will allow such emotion-dictated move on their side and miss such a good situation for them - WPC being their immediate neighbor and in this time their armies busy away from home on aggressive war and having an UU that is the victim of their own UU. If it was me in their position, I would have armed myself and attacked WPC very soon.

    Yes, I am almost sure they are arming for a war. And I think it is WPC who will be at the receiving end. I hope WPC took my warning for real and did some preparations in this regard.
     
  13. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    RB could also be gearing up to join WPC in an attack against the Germans. I'm not saying I think this is more likely than other scenarios, but it's another possibility. We don't know where the Germans are exactly, but it's possible they are RB's neighbors to the northwest.

    Speaking of which, I still think we should ask the Germans about how far RB's borders extend towards us, since they have a much more recent view of those lands between us than we have.
     
  14. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Yes, communicating with other players rarely hurts and most of the time is good thing beside the trivial information we will get.
     
  15. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I have a feeling Germans are way west to WPC to be of RB interest. So early logistic and distance is what determines your target usually.
     
  16. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    Talking with the Germans is a great idea. I'm sure they would love to have a friend right now, we can probably get lots of good information from them without having to make any comitments probably. That could help us decide if the Germans are in it for the long run, show us how to approach other some of our neighbors, or even be leveraged for other favors.

    "Hey Germans, how you doing? Good luck against WPC and all but keep an eye on RB. We are looking at their stats and trying to figure stuff out. It would be helpful if you could provide a tile count to their capitol or any other info you know about them."
     
  17. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    We've been a little neglectful in our diplomacy recently. Given the season, it's pretty understandable, but we should try to figure out ways to increase our communication with other teams. I think one thing that might help is if we give our Ambassadors a little more freedom and flexibility to quickly reply to messages that we receive, without requiring our reply to be approved by the team first.

    In order for this to work, we'll need to set general guidelines that we want our Ambassadors to follow, and then anyone who has an opinion on individual teams should engage in an ongoing discussions in the respective team threads to help guide the Ambassadors on the overall team opinion. For example, I think that in general we want to maintain peaceful relations with all our neighbors. In general, Ambassadors should be free to exchange basic information about the game, such as map info, our take on the other teams, etc.

    If we get a proposal that needs team input (such as a NAP request or something similar), we should set a timeframe for how long we will leave a message up for team comments before the Ambassador is allowed to send it off. I think this timeframe should be somewhere between 24-48 hours.

    Finally, I think we should send messages to all the teams we've met to touch base with them and re-initiate conversation. It can be a "Happy New Years"-type message if we don't have anything important to discuss at the moment.
     
  18. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Agree on that.

    Yes, 48 hours are OK.

    Great idea. Can we have all diplomats report in please? So we know we have full diplomatic corpus?
     
  19. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    I think it would be fair for someone else to take charge of diplomacy with UCiv. I haven't really had enough time lately for diplomacy, and this will be unlikely to change in the new year.
     
  20. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Thanks for letting us know. I hope you'll be able to keep following along, and maybe give feedback now and then.

    Talonschild, do you think you could write something up for UCiv? To recap, we sent them a message questioning their exploring warrior near our territory, and they replied that both teams can now approach the other's borders, since their earlier clause to our NAP was only meant to prevent early-game worker-sniping. The general consensus of the team was that we'll be more reluctant to cooperate with them in the future after this. We have both agreed not to settle the big mountain range between our teams. They are currently building up their military. Our NAP with them will expire in about 15 turns (with a somewhat vague end date that we should clarify).

    Could we also get short messages out to WPC and RB just to make sure we're keeping diplo channels open?
     

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