Foreign Policy: Apolyton

[talonschild]

This thread is to archive dealings with Apolyton. Any information we have on them and also our current attitudes and relations.

Apolyton (Elizabeth - Ottomans)
Leader Traits: Financial and Philosophical
Unique Unit: Janissary
Unique Building: Hammam

Starting Techs: Agriculture and The Wheel
Starting Unit: Warrior


Current Status: Unmet, neutral

Fond of roleplay

 

[2metraninja]

More good news, team.

We just made contact with Apolyton. Here is what MZprox have sent to me in a PM:

Heya

Our civs've just met finally, for this wonderfull occasion I thought I'd send a welcome message here.

So greetings in the Name of Elizabeth of the Ottomans!

We are not suggesting any serious cooperation or whatnot.. at least not yet, but we can express our worry about the growing might of Egypt, we can accept that they are good, but we also think that their huge power must be undeserved. So if you share this sentiment maybe we can work out something along those lines.
Ours is small civ on a relatively poor land, but our people are creative and science is prospering.
We can see that you are at war with the zulu, we suspect that they choosed this path to end their miserable lifes..at least with some honor and not painfully fading away..

So tell me what you think.. if you are authorized to do diplo contacts anyway.

mz

 

[Aivoturso]

Excellent news, indeed. They are frank and to the point. I like.

So they want to get rid of RB, eh? Not a big surprise. I think we should be frank as well and tell them that we have NAP with RB but that we share the sentiment and will work to solve the problem after the NAP expires.

 

[talonschild]

I'd say we ought to mention RB explicitly as a target for future cooperation. They recognize the threat, as we do.

Note that they refer to people by their civ choice, not their site.

A proposal:

Hey, mz,

Glad to finally meet the famed Ottomans. We agree, there's not much cooperation we can do right this instant, but would you care to sign an Open Borders, just for the sake of goodwill? Viz. our Zulu neighbours, yeah, they're an pretty fair annoyance, but we ought to be able to handle 'em.

You mention the massive Egyptian. We're looking to somehow curb them, too, once our NAP with them expires in sixty-odd turns, so another team that shares our priority is a very good sign. Looking forward to further cooperation once the present issue dissipates!

Ambassador [whoever], India/CivFanatics

 

[YossarianLives]

This is excellent news! I think Apolyton can become an important friend and ally to us, especially in light of this opening message.

Let's just send them a short acknowledgement message and work on something a little more put-together for them. Any takers on ambassadorship? 2metra seems to have a good history with MZprox.

Remember, they can help us by putting pressure on the Spanish flank. Or much more importantly, they can threaten the UCiv flank if this does become a 2 v 1 against us. They should be located directly east of UCiv, if my understanding of the map is accurate.

Also, their upfront and immediate comments about RB are very encouraging. A three-way alliance of the #2, #3 and #4 teams against RB might be exactly what we need on T175 to lay down the pain.

 

[2metraninja]

Very good points about Apolyton being next to Uciv and SpAp, we may use it,

Also,MZ asked for OB. Do we give them?

 

[YossarianLives]

I say yes to OB

 

[SilentConfusion]

Very good points about Apolyton being next to Uciv and SpAp, we may use it,

Also,MZ asked for OB. Do we give them?

It looks like our draft offers OB, but their message didn't mention it. Or do you mean Apolyton offered OB in-game? I say OB is fine with Apolyton and close cooperation since again they are not next to us and are next to our enemies (like CP).

 

[Sommerswerd]

Agree with OB with Poly

Agree with telling them about the NAP and agreeing to join their squash RB alliance.

 

[talonschild]

Yep. Same. Let's get this coalition business moving. Have they met CP yet?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Also, did anyone notice that comment about the Zulus just wanting to die with honor? Is it possible that Poly heard something like this from Zulu, that they are hoping that we just put them out of their misery?

 

[Sommerswerd]

And I think we can even be more explicit with Poly that we understand what they mean about RB and we agree. They gave us a wink wink nod nod message basically saying "Hey were not saying we should band together do detroy RB or anything, but... wink-wink"

I think we can respond with the same. I mean what are we worried about? That we lose the "element of surprise" on RB when the NAP ends? There will be no such thing. RB offered a NAP to turn 200 and we stuck with 175... They know damn well why. They will be locked, stocked and ready to rock on turn 175, I will bet a beer on that for sure.

 

[Maga_R]

Also, did anyone notice that comment about the Zulus just wanting to die with honor? Is it possible that Poly heard something like this from Zulu, that they are hoping that we just put them out of their misery?

My reading was that they just wanted to flatter us, as in "silly Zulus DoW you = they would die soon".

 

[2metraninja]

My reading was that they just wanted to flatter us, as in "silly Zulus DoW you = they would die soon".

MZ is not of those who flatten much. Judging from what I have seen about him, he have cold evaluative mind and he sees geopolitics and reasons-consequences relations very good. Also, I can say (shamelessly self-praising myself ) he have fought both against me and side by side with me and he knows what I am able of in war. So he knows Spaniards cant really win this war, and he is telling us what he already knows and believes.

 

[Maga_R]

My main point was that I think it was MZ's opinion, not something that he has heard from Spaniards. OK, may be flattery was not a good word - I more meant that it seemed to me that MZ just wanted to be nice and deservedly praise 2metra's military skills. Or simply mention that he knows what would happen.

 

[2metraninja]

My main point was that I think it was MZ's opinion, not something that he has heard from Spaniards.

Yes, yes, now I got it.

simply mention that he knows what would happen.

I had read it like this too.

 

[Aivoturso]

It could also simply be that guys in Apolyton have at some point prior to the game had some contact with Spanish Apolyton and they could therefore have some insight into SpAp psyche. Now that I think of it, SpAp DoW implies also that they want to go down in a blaze of glory.

 

[YossarianLives]

FYI, Apolyton has offered OB in game. As stated earlier, I say we accept.

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, lets accept.

 

[2metraninja]

So, yesterday I added MZ at gtalk and we had few chats trough the day with some pauses between them:

2metraninja: hey MZ
MZprox: Heya
2metraninja: whats up?
we have real spring outside
sun is shining, birds are flying
MZprox: yeah it's nice here too
2metraninja: about the game - team happily agree to OB with you, please enter the game and offer it, I will accept it tonight
MZprox: I can't enter now, but i will offer it
2metraninja: or I will offer it tonight and you can log in to accept and move your chariot
yes
MZprox: I1m actually thinking that I might bring up in my team to sell our chariot to you, if you are interested and we can agree on a fair price
2metraninja: oh, we can be interested in that too
you mean once you meet Spaniards?
do you know all the other teams already?
MZprox: Yes we met all of them, but we haven't found the zulu
thing is i1m not sure it's worth it to bring our chariot home especially if we could sell it
we are quite far away from each other, I don't think we will have common borders.. we won't even have border with RB.. unless they take out the Inca
2metraninja: yes, we had figured out how teams are situated way before we met most of them
what you think would be fair price for the chariot once you meet Zulus?
MZprox: it's unfortunate that we couldn't establish trade routes N-S.. we sent work boat expedition, but couldn't get to the other side
well since it's a chariot with two promotions I think the fair price would be around it's hammer cost
MZprox: but this is just my opinion, others in my team might think otherwise..
2metraninja: around hammer cost would be fair price, yes
MZprox: btw I can't really understand why some civs made so many cities especially without courthouses.. how could they keep up research.. we try to keep our maintenance at minimum, but even so it's very high , about 50% of our income
2metraninja: many civs are FIN
MZprox: almost all of them, as we are too
2metraninja: for example the non-FIN HRE had their 10 cities and their economy dropped drastic
ah, my bad, you are Elizabeth, right?
MZprox: yes
2metraninja: yes, so this cant be the reason
we know that RB have the most cities, but they have also the best GNP, so we dont quite see the negative relation between many cities and low GNP
MZprox: when we are both online I would like to do some test if you don't mind. As i told you we found that the maintenance is higher than it was in our test game, so maybe we can compare some numbers
I1m interested in the distance cost, as that's what seems to be too high
we are about to settle a spot 20+ steps from our capital.. now that will expensive
2metraninja: yeah, expensive
we are grouping our cities tight for that reason
a city size 10 only 7-8 tiles diagonally from capitol costs us more than 11 gpt maintenance
MZprox: we have pop1 cities costing more than 6
and we have less cities
2metraninja: hmm.. thats much
2metraninja: I will check in few minutes what our maintenance for a city size1 is
MZprox: distance matters a lot, so we should find a similar size/similar distance city to check
2metraninja: so, 6 tiles diagonally from capitol, city size1 costs us just below 6 gpt
5.90 and the sixth tile is not pure diagonal, but horizontal