Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

[cav scout]

Don't willingly give up the fish or the oasis! These are both in our sphere and should be ours to claim. We shouldnt give away stuff that hasn't been asked for.

Just tell them that we will be settling on our side of the halfway point and that we will be getting the stone/oasis. Let them know that we really intend to respect the halfway point so that is as far West as we plan to go.

We have made clear for a long time that we are interested in this area. Once they know we have our minds set on this location they will focus on other spots (ones that they might want to race for with another neighbor).

 

[2metraninja]

Don't willingly give up the fish or the oasis! These are both in our sphere and should be ours to claim. We shouldnt give away stuff that hasn't been asked for.

Absolutely agree with that. If we need to settle our stone city and get access to stone immediately, we will settle in a manner that still leaves us the good spot on the coast where we can work the fish (after we get those techs of course). So, the most specific I would like we to say about our settling plans is we plan to settle a city in the area, but it will be strictly on our side of the half-way mark Oasis.

 

[YossarianLives]

Thanks for the feedback! I think I was being generous to them in order to secure safety for a potential Stone city. I forgot that our NAP with them keeps us covered through T100, though, so I agree that the previous message would have conceded too much. How does this sound instead:

Hi Scooter / RB,

That sounds like a good idea to us. Are you thinking full Open Borders, or just for the trade routes with "no scouting" allowed?

Glad to hear you're getting along with your neighbors. Still no sign of Impis in our part of the world, so we should be ok as long as we can keep the Barbs at bay. Our mutual military struggle brings us closer together.

Regarding our border agreement ideas, we may soon be settling a city that is around this area, which is why we wanted to open up discussions again. Depending on the final location of the city, it may claim the Oasis that we’ve been using as the mid-point. However, we want you to know that we really intend to respect this halfway landmark, so this is as far West as we plan on settling. Again, we’re not asking for any concrete agreements here, but want to make sure we keep the lines of communication open to avoid any future misunderstandings. We hope that you will also communicate with us if you plan on settling any cities in this “mid-point” area.

Caledorn for Team CFC

I think this message is a lot less controversial, so if there aren't any objections, I will try to send it tonight (in about 8 hours). If we want to discuss the border section a little more, I'd at least like to send the portion about Open Borders tonight. That isn't an agreement to open borders, but just asking them to clarify whether or not that would include a "No Scouting" clause.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Our NAP with them keeps us covered through T100, though.

Regarding our border agreement ideas, we may soon be settling a city that is around this area, which is why we wanted to open up discussions again. Depending on the final location of the city, it may claim the Oasis that we’ve been using as the mid-point. However, we want you to know that we really intend to respect this halfway landmark, so this is as far West as we plan on settling. Again, we’re not asking for any concrete agreements here, but want to make sure we keep the lines of communication open to avoid any future misunderstandings. We hope that you will also communicate with us if you plan on settling any cities in this “mid-point” area.

I think this paragraph is a little bit too evasive. I suggest a stronger, clearer message... like

Regarding our border agreement ideas, we will be settling a city that is around this area very soon, which is why we wanted to open up discussions again. This city will have the Oasis in the BFC. We respect this halfway-point landmark, however, so this is as far West as we will settle.

The reason is I would rather not make them feel like we a bullsh!ting them. We don't know whether we want to claim the Oasis? Depending on the location? They will see through that, I think. Better to be clear what we want, and put them in the position of haveing to decide whether it's really worth souring relations over. I think they will say "OK whatevers, thanks for letting us know." I mean if they don't want us scouting them but they didn't come out and say it, I am betting that they prefer to avoid controversy between us

 

[YossarianLives]

Yeah, that sounds much better, thanks Sommerswerd!

Here's the newly revised draft. I'm still hoping to send this tonight:

Hi Scooter / RB,

That sounds like a good idea to us. Are you thinking full Open Borders, or just for the trade routes with "no scouting" allowed?

Glad to hear you're getting along with your neighbors. Still no sign of Impis in our part of the world, so we should be ok as long as we can keep the Barbs at bay. Our mutual military struggle brings us closer together.

Regarding our border agreement ideas, we will be settling a city that is around this area very soon, which is why we wanted to open up discussions again. This city will have the Oasis in the BFC. We respect this halfway-point landmark, however, so this is as far West as we will settle.
Caledorn for Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

That looks excellent, Yossarian.

I will also return to my duties shortly, thus lessening the impressive amount of work you have been doing for the team, as I am feeling much better now

 

[YossarianLives]

Glad to hear you're feeling better Cal!

The above message has been sent.

 

[Caledorn]

A mail from RB arrived this morning, and scooter is leaving town in a few hours, so I have to ask in here. Hopefully someone can respond before he leaves.

RB asks us where the city we wish to settle with the Oasis will be located. As in, what part of the BFC will the oasis be related to the city. I said I wasn't certain, and that I believe we are aiming for 6-6 or 6-3, but I see that one of our older dotmaps suggests 3 after I said that I think it was 6-6 or 6-3 to him. So I told him that I would ask here. (NB! He also said that 6-6 or 6-3 looks like a good location based on their plans, so that means we have half a blessing from them to actually settle in one of those locations based on what they can see)

I will post their mail in the Diplomacy Log thread now.

 

[2metraninja]

We are still to decide to we go Pyramids or no before we can answer that. If the team votes we go Pyramids, then we will decide where we want it settled. If not, we wont settle it before turn100 anyway. But that is only our business to tell. I think even mentioning we might want to settle that stone so early before we are actually any soon ready to settle it, was a big mistake. They will know we are aiming for Pyramids (or better they think we will aim for TGW), but in any case, they will use that guess to try and interrupt our plans. I put one beer on that.

Basically, we dont say anything about the stone. Or maybe we say: "those are some future plans and only idea, which we did not think enough at the moment, just wanted to give you notice in advance. Will tell you specifics if we come to this later." and thats it.

 

[2metraninja]

Also, I think this is a quite bad faux pas saying we are happy with a deal they propose and then ask what actually this deal means. This sounds like "of course we agree with you, just say what you want and you will get it".

 

[YossarianLives]

Well, regarding that first line, it was the third revision of an answer to their open borders question, and I thought we had all agreed on it.

We actually should decide if we want to agree to full open borders or not (really we should have decided before they answered so we'd be prepared). I say yes, and think we should send someone to scout them out.

Regarding the location of the Stone City, I was chatting with Cal while he was on chat with Scooter. He said he would post the log, but that it doesn't seem like RB know about the Stone. I let him know the spots we are considering for our city there, and he conveyed that to RB.

 

[Caledorn]

Regarding the location of the Stone City, I was chatting with Cal while he was on chat with Scooter. He said he would post the log, but that it doesn't seem like RB know about the Stone. I let him know the spots we are considering for our city there, and he conveyed that to RB.

Gah! Thank you for reminding me. I will get it up in a bit when I am at my computer again.

 

[2metraninja]

No, no - dont get me wrong, Yossa, I am not blaming anyone - I myself had read it but then forgot to comment at the time. It is not a big deal, just something to be taken note of.

 

[Caledorn]

Also, I think this is a quite bad faux pas saying we are happy with a deal they propose and then ask what actually this deal means. This sounds like "of course we agree with you, just say what you want and you will get it".

By that line of thought we did a bad faux pas with the Spaniards too.

Asking for a clarification, as we did, is not in my book the same as being submissive as you suggest in the last sentence there. On the contrary it is vital to avoid misunderstandings that may lead to unnecessary tensions (like what is going on with UCiv now, where we did not specify our part of the deal clearly enough and assumed their terms went both ways).

 

[2metraninja]

With Uciv it is absolutely clear what the deal is, just maybe some players on our team are not liking it much

 

[Caledorn]

With Uciv it is absolutely clear what the deal is, just maybe some players on our team are not liking it much

In retrospect, yes, you are sadly right. Most people would assume that such terms as they provided would not be a one way deal, as they seem to have meant. That still does not mean we should just quietly accept it though, as that would definitely send a signal to them that we are weak. But let us keep that in the UCiv thread. Feel free to paste this over there if you wish to continue the discussion.

Regardless, it was our mistake for not asking for clarifications while we had the opportunity to do so with UCiv, and the intention of what we are doing now with RB is to avoid any similar situations where misunderstandings and assumptions lead to discontent. As you can easily see in the UCiv thread, our team has taken a negative attitude towards UCiv as a result of what's happened.

 

[cav scout]

I'm wondering what RB plans are for around the oasis. When you gave them some precise details as to where we might settle they mentioned it wouldn't hinder their plans. So what is their plan? It would be nice to get a little reciprocity as far sharing of settler plans.

 

[2metraninja]

I see increase in RB's powergraph and starting to wonder what this might means. In the light of the recently war that broke between WPC and Germans (both neighboring RB), I though of something:

In fact WPC are those of our allies who I can trust most, and despite immediate neighbors dont make for a good friend (ideally you befriend the neighbor of your neighbor) it is still nice to have a secure side where you can turn you back to. Anyway, we have still some 30 turns NAP with WPC, and they are the only team assured us they look as the best ally to be on us, so we will be friendly (and even supportive with some intelligence information? or even with military units gifts for a territory concession in our border area?) and we will watch how things develop. I am a bit worried of the RB steep power increase. Is it to tackle barbs only? Arent RB preparing war chariots to smash trough the empty flank in to WPC lands? That would be the most unfortunate turn of events. Is there any way we to know that? Maybe it is a good reason we to accept full OB with them?

If we see that this is likely the scenario, we must take side. We cant just allow RB to gut one of our neighbors. They are strong now, and then they will be monstrous. I am not saying to betray the terms of our NAP, but to be ready to support WPC with spears/axes gifts. WPC must not fall to RB!

 

[Caledorn]

Here is the latest GTalk transcript. My apologies that I took so long at posting it

 

[talonschild]

Aye, a spear or two would make a hell of a difference.