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Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Yes, absolutely A1 for first settler if the spot is available, followed immediately by B1. If RB settled 1S of the corn, then we settle A3 followed by B3. If RB were really bold and settled A1 themselves, then we settle B1 and switch all gears towards organizing a T130 dogpile against RB.

    I've been arguing for a city at C2, and I still think that is a priority city to build, but let's secure the Oasis first. We won't get another city out east or north for awhile now, so maybe diplo in those directions should be about stalling the other teams from settling there, also. How soon can we put a 15-turn reservation on that whole FP area by SpAp?
     
  2. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    A1, B1 seems like the easy choice. How soon can we have it?
     
  3. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    As for "can", we can have 1 settler next turn and 3 more on the turn after the next, but I wanted to evaluate if it is wise to get the cities/land settled now and look for benefits in the future (explosively growing horizontally and relying we will catch on later on the vertical growth) or we must limit horizontal growth and put all efforts in growing vertical, while settling conservative only great spots which we have already improved.

    Adding 5-6 cities (1 or two barb cities included) to our currently 8-city empire in the next 3-4 turns can easily kill off our research power and lead our economy to serious hickup. Anyone willing to make estimation/simulation from my last save on the Monarchy vs Currency sandbox? We need only rough estimation but for a bit longer period (something like turn 120-130?)
     
  4. whb

    whb King

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    If they have settled the stone, we'll see the border pretty quickly with our settler.

    If they've settled A1, we settle B1. If they've settled A2, then I guess we have to settle B2 to claim the wines. But we should be able to see that if someone logs in already -- if they'd settled B2, then we should see their culture peeking through the fog along the river.

    If we could get A1, B1, C2 that'd be rather nice.

    Incidentally, I'd be surprised if RB had settled our way -- from the screenshots exploring they seemed to have nicer land in other directions (they seem to be hunting floodplains)
     
  5. whb

    whb King

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    A1, B1, barb city, north-eastern hill/flood-plain -- that sounds like 4 cities to me.

    C2 can wait as long as we like.
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    The picture with the suggested city settling spots is from the beginning of the current turn and it shows no sign of RB culture on the isthmus. This means A2, A3 and B3 are not settled. It still take only A1 to be settled and we cant settle any of the A's ourselves. We will be able to tell if they settled A1 this turn after we build 2 tiles of roads toward BrickByBrick (BbB). Hopefully there is no barbs in the area.

    Cal, can we have fresh info in the next 2-3-4 hours from RB regarding their borders there to be sure there are no barbs before we move our workers please?
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Looking more and more on the map of the isthmus, I more and more convince myself that the optimal settling would be A2, B2 and C2. A2 would be a slow grower, but will be nice long term. A1 would not be any better than A2 in the med-long term, while it can be perceived as more aggressive settled. A1 however will give us undisputed control over the corn and the fish, while A2 can be easily deprived by its corn or even the fish.

    B2 is so-so city - both in short and med-long term. But we need it if we are going to need those wines before 15 turns from now.

    C2 on the other hand is the best city short-med term. It have forest to be cutted in granary, it is close to Indira, so will have less maintenance, it is on the shore, so we can get sea trade routes and galleys online (this applies to A's too) and it have great food in first ring. It also leaves D1 free to settle, where I think we will need to build our Moai with chops and use the sea tiles and make an OK city out of that tundra wasteland??
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Or even Colossus in D1? 4 commerce sea tiles will make our long tundra sea shore quite good and usable.

    It have 5 forests to chop. We settle, we have missioner ready, we spread religion. In the next 10 turns until culture pops we chop 2 forest in forge and prechop he other 3 forests. on turn 10 we already have 50 hammers in Forge. Trough our OR, those become 62 hammers out of 120. we chop 1 more forest and whip 1 pop in to forge for another 70 hammers. 10 hammers overflow we have in Colossus. We chop the rest 2 forests for another 60 hammers. with OR, Forge and copper connected, we get multiplier of 2.5 we get 175 hammers out of 250 and we are 30 real hammers short of Colossus. It might be 1 whip somehow + few turns of normal production.
     
  9. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I will see if scooter is online with regular intervals throughout the day. As he is in the US (and I suspect also in the area of the snow storm they just had), he'll probably not be around for several hours yet. If he hasn't come around in the evening EU time we may have to send a mail.
     
  10. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    I likeA2-B2 as well. Not only is it a bit less aggressive strategy but the cities will also be a bit easier to defend. One tile less from the heart of our empire can be very important. Only thing I don't like in the order A2-B2 is that if RB settles B2, A2 would be a very vulnerable city.
     
  11. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Mind you, B2 would be vulnerable for them, too.
     
  12. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    You're right Talons. B3 wouldn't be that vulnerable for RB, though. And it would still leave A1 quite vulnerable.
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Actually, B1 gains nothing more in terms of tiles than B2 for us. Only difference is B1 can claim/work Stone if it happen that we cant settle any of the A's.
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    I still think A1 B1 is the way to go. That way we have two cities focusing culture on the stone and A1 grows faster, giving us more whipping potetial. I also like A1 because it extends our culture into th southern ithsmus, which will strengthen our position in terms of expanding in that direction later.

    Most importantly IMO, settling A1 may force RB into a concrete Border discussion rather than all these implications and inuendo.
     
  15. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    :agree:

    Settling A1 is our most important strategic goal, regardless of which locations will make stronger short or long term cities down the line.
     
  16. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    WOW, you think that we must try to expand south-west of the Oasis on to the western coast of Thunder Bay?
     
  17. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Breaking News

    1S of the oasis has been settled by RB. I will post the chat transcript as soon as I'm done talking to scooter. I "tricked" him into revealing the info by asking about the road.
     
  18. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Okay, so they apparently .. forgot .. to send us this mail notifying us about their new city. And I have to admit that this is the very first time I actually am suspecting an outright lie from scooter, as RB well knows that we would have responded with a question of where the city would be located, and that we would have objected to this city.

    And based on the chat (transcript here) I managed to get the information about the new city they settled, and the location of it (1S of the oasis), out of scooter by using our planned road network as an excuse.

    This means that RB has intentionally settled a city they know is provocative, and that they are more or less mocking us. Note my politeness towards him, and the question about them using workers to help road, to cover up any negative emotions I have towards him and RB right now. Dealing with RB diplomacywise now will be difficult for me, but I will be able to do it of course with the help of you guys. This was an act of aggression - they knew we planned to settle the stone and the Oasis, and they instead went ahead and did it themselves (probably laughing all the way at how stupid we've been to leave the spot open for all this time).

    I am sorry that I was unable to achieve a proper border agreement with RB - I should have tried harder. But I suspect that no matter how hard I had tried, they would have refused to agree to it, knowing that they wanted that spot. And I suspect that that spot is the very reason they never agreed to it, even after we continued to pursue the matter after they defogged the area themselves.

    So - what do we do now guys?
     
  19. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Sigh, so my fears came true...
     
  20. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    I say we settle the wines or right next to the stone to secure as much of the ithsmus as possible as soon as possible.

    Now at least we know where we stand with RB. No border agreement whatsoever.

    Do we threaten War over the city or do we just move on with other plans? To me that seems like the only relevant issue at this point.
     

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