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Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    2metraninja, I agree with everything you're saying. It is the same point I was trying to make earlier, and I think it would work effectively.

    As far as resource trades, yes, they are very common at RB. Especially in their CTON games, they use research trades a lot to communicate cooperation (for example, trading a health resource for a health resource, sometimes the exact same resource).

    @Sommerswerd, how would we respond if they came back to us saying something like "Sure, and in return we'll take Wines and Horses." They have enough happy and strategic resources as it is, I'd rather not give them anything else that will help them out just now.
     
  2. whb

    whb King

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    More thoughts.

    If I was RB, I'd be expecting us to declare war on them sooner rather than later (any time in the next 100 turns) -- and not because of the city. I suspect this might be why they got IW, and they'll probably get construction soon. RB are some way ahead in the graphs. As this tends to be a momentum game, that means that on the present course there's a closing window where anybody can do anything about it. We are, so far as we can tell, the #2 team and most likely to want to take them on to stop them running away with the game.
     
  3. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    If resource trades are common practice for RB, I say we try that. Not sure what is best way to approach it though.
     
  4. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I generally like the idea, but to answer your question where it can goes wrong; they give us nothing. Then what?

    EDIT: I like the Sommers idea of just asking for these resources without any reference to settlement problem. Then if RB refuses, we look less like loosers.
     
  5. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Just asking them to give us those goodies as Sommers suggest will not work, I am almost 100% sure.

    As for the best approach to this, I think we must just simply say we are looking at the act of them stopping the border discussion and settling the city in place which denies us the city spots we explicitly said we would want to settle, as a shady one at the best. And we feel being injusticed and would think we have been compensated if we are promised the Stone for the length of our duration and been compensated 1 spices for the loss of the fish, which is clearly on "our" side of the midway. To repair the shaken trust between us and strengthen our future relations we propose them NAP to turn 150 or even further. Who would refuse such great deal? You trick your opponent, get the great spot and then you are offered indulgence and long peace of mind for mere 2 doubling resources.

    Nah, IW is for chopping the jungles, where their Calendar resources were laying mostly. And Calendar is for MoM. Expect that soon.

    If we make good argumentation (we were not finished border agreement (we told them where we want to settle, they settled in place to deny us our planned settling spots, they settled in manner to deny us 2 resources on our side of the midway) and we ask for reasonable compensation (2 doubling resources) and they refuse or even worst - mock us, then we know how they look on us as a team. The earlier our relations are clear, the better. If they cant say "sorry" and apology proper either because they think they did not wronged us or because they are selfish and overly - confident and above-us, then we might want to know this in advance. Just as Captain Sommers was proposing we to test them as a team by declaring war with our exploring warrior and if they are worthy and prepared to defend themselves, then we apology and look at them as worthy team. No harm done. The same they might see this as testing us - they settle and wait for our reaction. If we come with reasonable request to settle the dispute, then they see we are worthy. If they refuse, then we see them as not worthy and thats it.
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    We have quite a job to do before we can call ourselves second. We are at best in the leading group for now. Dont underestimate CP and Apolyton. Cant tell for CivFR, but they are doing good until now, we must wait and see before we dismiss them as serious opponent. Uciv are also serious team from what I see.
     
  7. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    If they say this then we can either agree, or refuse and bring up our border grievances then. I am in favor of saying nothing entirely, but if we are going to ask for resources, I prefer to just ask for them rather than trying to guilt them into it.

    @ 2metra - Why you think that the guilt-trip will work but asking as "friends" won't? If they dont respect us they will refuse us either way. I would say we could least try asking as friends before resorting to the guilt trip. People resent being guilt-tripped and lose respect for the one doing the guilt-tripping. I know you have said we gain some advantage by them losing respect for us, but I don't see how. I still think they are mostly just irrationally and overly terrified that we will use the CSM on them:mischief:
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Not exactly guilt trip. More like a trade-off. They get the city, and we get the resources. But if they have a sense for justice at all, this will make it, or call it the guilt - it will work its part too. And why they wont just give things for free to us is because they look at themselves as business persons. Which business person just gives things for free? While if we offer them something in exchange: indulgence + NAP so they can use their unmatched economic and development skills to run away even further with the game, they will trade those for 2 mere resources. And they might also want to look as the cool guys. Nobody likes to be perceived as аss-hole.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    But what about the NAP? I thought we wanted to let that expire?
     
  10. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    No, we wont be ready to tackle them in 30 turns. Generally what I had in mind is we attack someone (Uciv or SpAp) at turn 150 and kill him annexing his territory. While still on speed and having big army and having our other neighbor (Uciv or SpAp) think we got our part of fighting, we regroup in column on speed and incise in their soft undefended body. Depending on the situation we might be able to completely kill off one and wound deadly the other taking half of the territory or outright kill 2 neighbors (Russia of the Blackadders). This will give us the land we need to become late-game monster (Krez from G&H anyone?).
     
  11. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I don't think they would consider them given for free. They will consider them given for good will. Good will is a valuable commodity, at least as valuable as duplicated resources. They may think they need good will after the settling issue and they will gladly accept. Or they may not feel we are upset about the settling (they'd be wrong, but they might), in which case having good will with neighbors (especially good will you can cancel when you want) is still a valuable commodity for the future.
     
  12. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    My point too, I guess. They will give those 2 luxuries because they will think is fair and they buy our good stance with them after the shady way they settled their city.
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    We need to decide on this quick, to send a message to Rb and rely to have quick answer too. We are in position to settle B2 city this turn, be I would say to postpone if necessary to first get agreement with RB.
     
  14. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Whatever we decide to do in terms of diplomacy, let's not delay settling the city. We need the Wines for Happy. We also need to get a Missionary here ASAP to combat RB's free culture from Stonehenge Obelisks. If this means that we say nothing to RB, well then I'd rather just say nothing to RB.

    Their Obelisks are how they got the Prophet for their Shrine, by the way. I wonder if they had a polluted Scientist / Prophet pool?
     
  15. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I would say either A.) say nothing and settle immediately, or B.) ask if they'd lend us use of their resources and settle immediately.
     
  16. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Lets ask for resources, I'm curious to see how they respond. And make sure we don't say anything about what we can give them, just ask for what we want and see what they say.
     
  17. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    If we are to send them a message the quickest way would be to use GTalk to get a feeling for what scooter initially thinks, followed up by an official mail after that. I suggest we do it that way if we are to ask.

    On that note, I strongly doubt they will agree to a deal for nothing. And I strongly doubt they feel any remorse or guilt about their city. On the contrary I am pretty certain they feel they have outplayed us and are now gloating a bit on how good players they are compared to us. Asking them for resources for free will most likely make them ridicule us in their forums, but it does lend a certain credibility to us behaving irrationally and unexpected though, as I am certain they don't expect us to look like we are begging at their door... Hm...
     
  18. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Do you really think RB thinks like this? See my above post. :)
     
  19. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Interesting message from RB just came in.

     
  20. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    :lol: sounds like they have a spy in our forum:mischief:... Or maybe they are just as smart (or smarter) as we and they read it exactly as as we do... who would have thought?;)

    What they are thinking now is "Hmmm we screwed them... Why dont they say anything? Must be because they really like us and really want to be friends or they are furious and plotting against us quietly... Lets offer a closer friendship to find out where they stand."

    So do we ask them for the resorces we want now or no? Or are we still thinking to tell them how mad we are at them in response to them saying they want to be BFFs?

    I repeat that we should either ignore them and let them sweat over what they did, or at least demand free resources as a "token of friendship".
     

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