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Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I have some stuff I need to take off here, so I will be unable to give a long response here for a few more hours.

    The short summary of my thoughts are that I am unsure what my own opinion is. I definitely feel we are entitled to get the stone immediately, but I also am very much in agreement with the sentiment that we should not push our luck. A possibility is to offer RB the loan of 1-2 of our workers for 1-2 turns to hook up the stone near Starfall (their new city) so they get it quicker in exchange for them giving us stone 4-6 turns from now. That way they will only be without stone themselves for 2-3 turns, which is exactly what we need to chop TGW.
     
  2. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    For now, I will just move our settler in position to settle with stone in first ring. Once settled, we can have it in 2 turns.
     
  3. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    That's actually a very disturbing chat - it seems as though he's intentionally stalling on us. I highly doubt that information availability in RB has gotten to the point where a senior diplomat is unable to check on when their new border city will have a border pop. The answer to your question should have been a "I'll check our MM threads and give you an answer in a minute", not "I'll ask my team". It sounds like he's asking his team something else, along the lines of how long they need us to not have stone or something like that.
     
  4. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    On the whole stone issue, I start to believe they are aiming at HG and not at Pyramids or TGW. In this case, we will just need to know at what exact turn we will have the stone, so we are ready. HG requires Aqueduct and we dont see one built in their cities, right Yossa? Maybe some of those big counts hammers they had invested are for Aqueduct and they expect this Aqueduct to be finished soon in 1-2-3 turns and they dont want to give us the stone now because they will need it then?
     
  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    The deadline for Stone at the earliest is the earliest time we would start building a stone Wonder, say Mids for example.

    Now let's say that they are building Mids (or TGW) and they don't want to give us the stone because they don't want us to compete for it... Demanding stone now will not make them delay their Wonder and risk losing it to us. They will just stall until it is finished and then say "OK we are ready to sign the NAP now and give you the stone" Are we ready to refuse at that point? If not then there is NO risk to them in stalling to finish their Wonder.

    2metra says that with stone we can finish TGW in 2 turns, Mids in 10. I don't think it's a coincidence that they want exactly a 10 turn delay. If we can finish it in 10 turns so can they.

    So here is our play IMO. We can accept that they are going to get both Wonders and go ahead and accept our T175 NAP with free stone and spice, or say this:
     
  6. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    :eek: That's... ambitious. But great at the same time! :cool:
     
  7. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    And, important or not, oh so satisfying to say.
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    :) It sounds good, but of course I will have to play the cautious one once again when around Captain Sommers temper. First, we cant risk our future politics, based on a single bluff. Also, we cant have The Stone earlier than turn 104 even if we settle B3 (now is t102 and there are 3 hours only to turn switch, so we cant get agreement before turn 103). And those 10 turns I count if we know 3-4 turns in advance that stone is coming, so we can get our workers ready. It can be even less than 10 turns. We can have Pyramids in like 6 turns once the workers are in position. So we need 3 turns to hook up stone after we settle B3. Then we need like 3 turns to move them and 3 turns to chop, so Pyramids are ready on the fourth. but That is not much slower than if we ask them to give us end date and this date is about 7 turns from now. I will check when A1 was settled.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    For the record, I think our smartest play is to just take our free stone and spice and stand up from the table (gambling reference), but if we are going to press our luck, then the only way to go to me seems to be to all-in (No immediate stone, no NAP, ever).

    It is the riskier choice, obviously... Greater risk = greater reward... or failure
     
  10. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Was going to say that too. We wasted 2 turns and possibly 6 workerturns waiting for political solution. But we could not settle the isthmus city before finalizing the deal of course.

    I just calculated and we have 6 turns from the time we get the stone to the Pyramids. If we decide to give them a shot, we can start it even earlier (2 turns without Stone equals 1 turn with stone for those 6 turns + we can chop in the last turn when we get the stone.

    Lets wrap this baby asking RB to give us exact date of delivery of Stone and plan according to this. I think we will have another serious decisions to be made very soon.
     
  11. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Lets go all in, they will fold because the NAP is what they care about. They would rather give up stone for 10 turns then have a wild card on their border.

    I wouldn't even mention wonders in our reply. Just say that the stone and spice right now is a requirement for any extension of the NAP with us.
     
  12. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Scooter needing to check with the team when borders will pop is bull$hit. Starfall was settled on T98 with a free Obelisk. Barring Anarchy, the borders will pop no later than T108, which is 5 turns from now (T103 just started an hour ago).

    I just popped into the game to confirm, RB has no Aqueduct in any visible city. They do have some core cities in the fog, so they could be building it in one of these, but I doubt it. I also noticed a lighthouse in Horse Feathers that I had missed earlier.

    That body of water to CP's southeast is a freshwater lake. Interesting, I wonder where their southern shore is...

    Spaniards have sent a Worker outside of their borders towards us, presumably to help with the road network. We haven't started our end of it yet, but we have some workers in the area, so we should prioritize this. It'll give them trade routes to RB and the Germans, too. Lucky them.

    Our axes are in position to take the Spaniards' barb city next turn. Are we doing this? Do you want me to say anything to them before we take it?

    Edit: Sorry, that turned into a more general update, probably shouldn't have gone in here. The first part about RB is relevant, though.
     
  13. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I agree with the careful sentiment here and will prepare a draft accordingly soon as that seems to be the most prominent desire.

    I will adapt Sommerswerd's alternative as well, and I will call a vote between the two (probably overstepping my bounds a little) if talonschild is not around to do it. We need a decision before tomorrow afternoon EU time.
     
  14. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    I take it we haven't heard from scooter yet?
     
  15. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    No - based on what he said in the conversation I expect he won't get back to us until tomorrow. This is so blatantly obvious stalling that it's almost painful... :p
     
  16. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    That's why I'm in favor of Sommerswerd's "chainsaw Diplomacy" approach. :cool:
     
  17. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Draft A
    Draft B
    Draft C
    I wrote these rather quickly, so don't hold any bad wording against me please ;) Suggestions for any of the drafts are welcome! We should have a vote up within the hour. If you prefer a suggestion but think there are something in the draft that you would like modified then vote for that suggestion, and I will adjust the draft as we agree to.
     
  18. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Kinda would prefer that draft 3 read "for at least the next 100 turns" or something. Never say never, and all that. Vote (as requested) going up.
     
  19. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I think our drafts are meaningless at the moment, as the procative move of the settler seems to have solved the entire issue - well done on moving that settler, 2metra. I'm quite pleased with this, and I think we should just accept it outright. :)

     
  20. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    More goodies to be perused by everyone here:

    I deliberately chose not to confirm/deny the pyramids, and respond with the "it is obvious that if we are indeed aiming for..." statement to leave them to theorizing. They know we either want the 'mids or TGW - but let them think we want the 'mids (Alternatively they are afraid we want TGW, and scooter is trying to trick me into making a statement that gives it away - either way I did not want to confirm anything, as if we then built TGW first I could be accused of lying to them, even if we do want the 'mids too).
     

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