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Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I agree, getting stone just 1 turn earlier does not seem worth changing optimal city placement.

    Interesting, that RB would like to extend our NAP even longer...
     
  2. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    This is my sentiment as well.

    That RB wants to extend our nap so far into the game makes me think that they consider us a major rival that they want to postpone conflict with until they feel they are ready to take us on. That is stating the obvious I think, but it's still a comfortable thought. :)

    The other interesting thought it opens up is what they intend to do after they have captured WPC and the Germans. Is CP the next target? Or is it Apolyton? Both?
     
  3. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    I'm concerned about the no gifting units clause they want with a NAP. They are wanting to tie our hands completely.
     
  4. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    So am I. It is why I specified in my chat with scooter that we consider it binding only until we have a more formal agreement.

    I'm not sure how to deal with it, but thinking a bit about it we might have a solution if we get a speedy response from WPC. If we can manage to get an agreement with WPC that we pledge to help one another in wars with unit gifting and we have that agreement in place before we conclude our dealings with RB, we have the option to add the clause "Except WPC, who we already have a binding agreement with to help militarily in case of war". That requires some speedy work on your behalf, 2metraninja, if we want that option!
     
  5. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Oh, and 2metra. If you want to settle the city 1S of the Oasis, please send this to RB from our email if I am not around before settling:

    Please make sure you send that before you even log in to the game to settle, to keep my honour as the team diplomat intact. Thanks! :)
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Actually, if we look at that purely rational, B2(SE or the rice) is better location :) There are only 2 problems with it. One is that we will give in to half their demand (settling SE of the rice) without agreeing to their second wish (t200 NAP) so we wont get 1 turn earlier stone. Second is more hipothetical, but still worth considering. If we settle B2 instead of B1, we lose the opportunity to fight culturally for stone for ever (stone in our third ring vs their second). But I dont think this is much of an issue. I am definitely against t200 NAP. Say them "t175 is already long enough NAP, longer than we would normally accept" to make them feel we are making concession on this too.
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    BTW, did they ever promised to not build Pyramids?
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    This is nothing to be surprised about. It just shows (just as expected btw) that we are not dealing with noobs and they will think of this with just the same logic as we did already in the long draft about formal agreement with desirable ally I posted in the General Politics thread. What is bad for us in this case is we are most probably the team who have to suffer from such agreement as RB are seen as powerhouse and no one will accept soldiers from them to fight us, but exactly the opposite - we are those who might want to arm some of the RB weak neighbors to make RB life harder.
     
  9. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Yes, they did promise that, and I consider that binding on their behalf.
     
  10. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Actually, reading the conversation again, just to make this clear: we need to claim Pyramids if we want to bind them to it!
     
  11. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    In the next few hours we need to come to agreement - do we accept B2 and t175 NAP only and we have a deal for stone from t106, or we still want B1 and t 175 deal and again stone from t106.
     
  12. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Don't see the difference, besides city placement. I prefer to settle closer to them than otherwise.
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    And what about the other stuff? No espionage, no gifting units to enemies, no culture bombing (did not mention that because I do believe it is not much smart to use GPs to steal few tiles, except for very rare cases. Culture bombs can be very very handy in war though ;) But in peace.. it is just a waste of a GP most of the time.) Shall we accept that just as is: "Generally not doing evil stuff" or we want it written down? Scooter mentions we set the exact details later, but this means that we dont have firm deal until we dont agree to all of their demands. As we will be already settled B2 or B1 and lost our "gunboat". Those guys are masterfully making us a "spoon by the hour, cup by the day" diplomacy. They know we are those who must wait finalize the deal before we can continue. The time works for them - they build the wonder they want, their cities are growing, their workers improving stuff they planned and we only pay 5-6 gpt for units out of our culture. :(
     
  14. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    You are right. It is bad that we accept only half the deal. But talking military, B2 is way easier to defend than B1. And it is going to be a border city. Yes, after 75 turns, but still border city. This is what is appealing for me in this. Otherwise, it is making concessions to RB without any gain. Also throwing away the possibility to fight culturally for stone. But assuming t175 NAP with them and secured delivery of Stone, I think we will have captured another stone source by then.
     
  15. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    If we will have other Stone by 175, then I have no reservations about B2.
     
  16. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    I still think we should settle B1.

    We have spent enough time on this. Lets plant our city at B1 and get the NAP, spices and stone at 106.
     
  17. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    The only difference in the deal is that if we settle B1 we get stone from t106, while if we settle B2 we get stone from t105. I'm not sure that makes much of a difference to our plans?

    B2 is a better spot, but B1 does give us the possibility of gaining stone ourselves from a culture war. It makes no difference to me really, unless we need that stone from t105. I am pretty certain we will gain stone from either conquering UCiv, SpAp, or both.
     
  18. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    Based on how I'm reading scooter, RB wants details of "do no evil" in writing and not just as a loose "do no evil". So if we don't come up with a draft for an agreement, I'm pretty certain they will do it for us. That's part of the reason why I responded to him that we were working on one, even though that puts some pressure on us to complete it as knowing RB they are probably already working on a draft. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a suggestion for a full treaty from them later today in our email.
     
  19. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Time flies and we must get this signed before this turn ends.

    Unless Cal have strong opinion against this, I propose we send them this:

     
  20. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    You forget the other part of their terms to give us stone from t105 - they want 25 turns more NAP ;) Which is the real thing in this case. And I am strongly against it.
     

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