Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.
As long as it's not a ridiculous request we should be generous with our allies.
So, here is the specific request by CP:
* 150 gpt for 10 or 11 turn,
* starting t180
* start repaying back in 191, 192 or 193 turns (1-2 turns after the last transfer from us to them)
* will be payed back in 3-4 or something turns (i.e. not 150 gpt, but whatever income they have then)
* will be payed back with 10% interest on the whole sum
The reason why they need those money is to tech to Banking and keep teching a bit after while they build banks in their commercial centers. As they have Oxford University, but have no Banking yet, so for them collecting money now is very hard and ineffective.
Ot4e have some reasons to not ask for those money from MZ. Maybe he dont want to feel grateful or obliged to MZ. Or he dont like the idea of being dependent on MZ?
Anyway, we were talking about MZ and Ot4e few times sounded like annoyed to him. I asked him why and he said that MZ is having the easiest task in fighting, where he already took his lands and now have 29 cities - far more than us and Ot4e. I said that I dont envy MZ as he just played his cards well and our relations are like symbiosis, to which Ot4e had sent me this pic to illustrate how he feels the symbiosis with MZ
If he feels like MZ is having the easiest time of it then he should get the $$$ from MZ not us WTF???
But anyway since he is offering 10% interest then I say a loan for 10 turns is fine provided we dont need to tech something urgently.
This sounds great -- there we were worried about our allies joining together to dogpile us after RB, and here's one of them wanting to work closer with us because they're having a tiff with another ally.
Are CP pencilling in MZ to be the next target after RB and CivFr?
I cant be sure, but ot4e sounds sour about MZ almost all the time. Like telling me Poly got their first Great General and I ask: "LOL, first one?" and he is like: "Yeah, from killing scouts the experience is not that great". I asked him to clarify about those scouts, and Ot4e explained me that in the ex-Germans lands (Inca lands as they call them), RB did not really defended, but most of the times retreated, leaving cities empty, but in the last minute they whip a scout (scout is 15 hammers and can be whipped from each city size 2 even from scratch). This way they force you to use unit to attack it, possibly get hurt a bit, so you may stop this unit for healing for turn or two, and what is most important - they give you a city 1 size less, so you have way harder time to develop and make those cities productive for yourself. So Ot4e suggests that MZ took a lot of cities with almost no fights.
Another thing that makes me suspect ot4e does not love MZ a lot is that Ot4e sometimes refers a bit ironic to MZ as "Our knight with shining armor", which is a joke about me saying MZ is real knight by heart, but as it seems Ot4e doubts that.
So, beside the big emotions about destroying the RB stack, I almost forgot to put what Ot4e asked me yesterday. He asks for extending and renegotiating of the terms of our NAP:
Looks okay by me.
How will this treaty impact our plans for CivFr, whatever those may be?
I honestly dont think that CivFR is a real option for next victim anymore. They gave us peace, helping us with that against RB. And they gave knights to ot4e. Well, it seems those were not gifts, but to upgrade and use and return later, but still, I think we can see them as helping our alliance. Plus, we have NAP till t210 with them. We will have to think about them later I think.
So we go after UCiv. I don't want to put CivFr off any longer, though, as they get to peacefully develop now.
Cp asked 150 gold turn i will say beter gave them turn by turn or?
It was my idea to be a gpt deal. This way we postponed 1 turn starting giving the money. Ot4e can tech with the money he will automatically receive from us on turn switch, while we can use those 150 for upgrading 1 more unit to gren this turn.
I dont see any problem with the GPT deal. We have no to hide (not like we could anyway) and we dont plan on breaking this deal, so yeah, why not gpt?
wel i just gave the 150 and i dont think we will use more then 400 for upgrades anyway.
Ot4e showed up asking us to prepare and attack Uciv He is a bit late. I was repeating that we eliminate and divide all the rest teams, but he did not wanted, because it included his precious CivFR. Now I guess he is coming to ask us to attack Uciv (despite he have no anything to gain from it) so we dont touch CivFR at t210 and direct our energy away from them 2 teams - CP and CivFR. Sorry, ot4e, but this is not going to work I think.
I laughed for real when he said self-ironically he is slow and just after this offered us to push together on Uciv so we can get something from them. Sorry again Ot4e, but we are already 2 steps ahead with that too Which have nothing to wonder for btw. Uciv are afraid of us and only us as they said explicit and they came to offer us bribe to pay off their lives to us.
Man this ote is such a snake i cant belive how is fsihing info from you metra.
i gave 550 to cp turn 150 for that 10X 150 and 400 for shrine sight.
I think we have a small problem with CP. Ot4e plays it insulted about us giving money to MZ and for taking money from Uciv. (BTW, MZ did not knew details from our deal with Uciv too and I barely managed to keep things the same It turns out Uciv did not gave ransom to MZ, but only 500 gold loan with 10% interest. He might get upset at us if he finds out what we got from them).
ANd we need NAP with Ot4e to be able to concentrate on killing CivFR. So, besides the idea to play on his thin string about the advanced MZ (if this is his real concern at all) and ask Ot4e to give us NAP so we ensure we dont end fighting each-other while MZ techs away, I am out of good ideas how to get that NAP. Ot4e makes his usual drama and pretends he is genuinely disappointed from us. What for? That he took 50% more land than us in the spoils division and that we payed him big time cash in addition and we gave him loan to get to Communism???
Anyway, emotions aside, we need to find a way to get NAP with Ot4e. If we make this, we are almost guaranteed to be 1 of the 2 teams to compete for the final win. Any suggestions can be helpful.
Did you just ask Ot4e for a NAP to turn 250 and he refused outright? If not, I think it is best to ask.
I think we must be ready to offer up UCiv or WPC as teh sacrificial lamb to CP for a NAP. That is to say that we will look the other way while he conquers UCiv (or WPC). That way, he will be busy and constrained by NAP while we and Poly divide up CivFr.
My point is, just ask CP for a NAP to turn 250 and see if they refuse outright. If they do, then we know that they plan to attack us with CivFr.
So if Ot4e (wisely) wants promises that Poly and CFC won't attack him, then I think the best way is to promise him exactly that, MZ will be giving him a NAP too.
We can tell CP the truth, that Poly also is worried about CFC and CP allies joining against them 2 on 1, just as he is worried that we would do the same with Poly against him. So the best solution is for all 3 of us to sign a NAP until turn 250.
Obviously he will try to include CivFr in this, and we can play insulted, saying "CivFr is not one of the original 3 allies to take RB down, everyone must make their NAP agreements with CivFr seperately, 3 way NAP is already complicated enough, trying to make it into a 4 way NAP is just ridiculous."
It was heavy 3-days talks and still nothing serious. Judge for yourself:
About giving Uciv as sacrificial lamb to Ot4e, he is not stupid to try, nor magician to be able to conquer Uciv alone from such a distance between cores. About WPC... I dont know - it is not very good fief and it is between 3 other nations, impossible to integrate somehow in CP's empire as they even dont have common border. Plus Uciv wont be happy with CP taking whole of WPC, nor will be MZ I think. Purely from geography point of view it is almost unthinkable ot4e to want any of those, let alone if he have to fight war to get those, or have his lands split in two, army split in two, where everyone can just close borders and cut him in half, etc,etc... I dont think it is going to work.
I wanted to warm him up a bit, but yes, i think we will come to the part where I simply ask.
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