1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Forever Dark Ages

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Mod Components' started by Crayton, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. Crayton

    Crayton King

    Jul 18, 2004
    I haven't uploaded something to these forums in years, but here is the Forever Dark Ages Mod(comp).

    The main effect in this mod is the random loss of knowledge over the course of the game. The algorithm is that every turn a random technology from the entire tech-tree is selected. If this technology has already been research, then it will be deleted from your resarch history and all knowledge of the technology will be erased. Eventually you will reach a point where the rate of research is equal to the rate of forgetting technology (often the Medieval Era).

    At first glace this may seem annoying, but it runs smoothly. Units or buildings that require a forgotten technology will be put on hold until that technology is re-researched.

    Effectively, your progress up the technology tree is not measured by cumulative research power but rather by current research power. Now, you can truly knock an opponent back to the Stone Age.

    An indirect effect is the emphasis on military conquest (just like the European Dark Ages). Militaristic expansion is both caused by the lack of adancement (available buildings have already been constructed) and is a means of advancing (more cities => more research power => greater research power).

    A second effect is that the rich get richer; more advanced civilizations have more means by which to enhance their research output and again advance more. This is doubly true because of the highly militaristic aspect of the game.

    Potential Addition: Because the most powerful army can take over the world piece by piece (advancing technologically with each step) creating a "Holy War" or pitting all other civilizations against this one, could add an interesting game mechanic.

    Potential Addition: A revised calendar system. Stretching the calender from 300AD to 1500AD at a constant rate of years/turn should be effective and realistic.

    Annoying bit: while the Granary can be put on hold if Pottery is forgotten, to be completed at another time, unfinished World Wonders are dimantled and converted into Gold. This is potentially annoying. Usually I am not a builder so it has not bothered me yet.

    Here is the sum of the added code, in the python CvEventManager, onBeginGameTurn
    		for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
    			pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
    			pTeam = gc.getTeam(pPlayer.getTeam())
    			rTech = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(gc.getNumTechInfos(), "Lost Tech")
    			if (iPlayer == 0) and (pTeam.isHasTech(rTech) == 1) : CyInterface().addImmediateMessage("Technology has been Lost", "AS2D_NEW_ERA")
    			pTeam.setHasTech(rTech, 0, iPlayer, 0, 0)
    			iResearch = (0 - pTeam.getResearchProgress(rTech))
    			pTeam.changeResearchProgress(rTech, iResearch, iPlayer)
    This mod(comp) was initially intended to be a step toward creating a perpetual mod, where civilization could rise and fall in all manners (technologically, geographically, and culturally).

    Most of my playtesting was done under normal gamespeed, with tech-trading turned off (for obvious reasons), and an agressive AI. I played at my normal difficulty and got wiped off the earth within 100 turns a couple of times.

    Attached Files:

  2. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

    Oct 22, 2008
    :think: interesting, but imho unplayable.
    Looking at the code, you just lose the techs too fast.

    Could be an option for a special scenario :think:.
  3. Crayton

    Crayton King

    Jul 18, 2004
    Oh, it is definitely playable (my roommate says it is fun, but he likes going for Space Race victories, so he did not like that).

    Although it does change some of the required playstyle; for example:

    In my most recent game I was stuck with Catapults and Axemen until I conquered my neighbor. Then I was able to advance to Longbowmen just in time to thwart off a juggernaut civ with Knights. After crossing the sea to conquer another civ stuck on an island, I too got knights and trebuchets and had a long war of attrition with that juggernaut civ.

    I lost a techology about once every four turns (equal to my average research time of a technology). Many of these are easy to re-aquire in 1 turn because they are first or second tier technologies.

    Because the code is equal against all civilizations, it never gets annoying.

    In my most recent game I had added a high-cost tech that is a prerequisite for all basic techs: "Dark Age Technology." All civilizations start with it but if you lose it you have to invest the time to re-research it just to replace first-tier techs like Agriculture. THIS was annoying and NOT included in the file.

    In the game I outlined above, I was close to wiping out that juggernaut civ when I lost the Dark Age Technology. I decided to keep running a full-tilt war economy in order to knock them out of the game instead of undergoing (researching) the Dark Ages, but eventually I lost all of my technology, all my reserves were Warriors, and I was steamrolled only 20 turns after reducing them to 4 cities.

    I do think I will construct a scenario or mini-mod with the "Holy War" possibility I outlined in the initial post. Any other ideas to complement this code?
  4. mamba

    mamba Deity

    Aug 23, 2007
    Doesn't this depend on the game speed you are playing at ?

    That should be accounted for in the mod imo. Maybe have a random chance of either losing or not losing a tech each turn. For fast speeds the chance is 100% (as it is now), for marathon it is 25% or whatever is appropriate.
  5. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

    Jul 31, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    It would be more interesting if technologies were tied to cities than just randomly disappearing. The thought of mathematics just being 'forgotten' is... ridiculous. However, if your cultural city in your empire got captured, I could understand losing Literature and Music.
  6. The Capo

    The Capo godless Heathen

    Jan 29, 2001
    Washington, DC
    I agree, certain things being forgotten really wouldn't make much sense. Like simple things like Fishing or Agriculture just wouldn't really be forgotten, granted better methods would, but the general concept really wouldn't. Things like Machinery, or Civil Service maybe, but this should definitely be refined. Good idea though.
  7. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

    Jul 27, 2009
    Szeged, Hungary
    Yeah, agree with the others there
    One more thing which I would add, that you cannot lose the recently researched technologies.
    This can be varied, but for example the techs you got in the last 50 turns or something like that.
    It makes no sence when your civ forget a tech you just researched.
  8. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

    Apr 19, 2004
    Vienna, Austria
    It seems to me that that would stray from the point of the mod though, which is to model the loss of knowledge that happens when a society implodes or faces some major upheaval; essentially the mod's effect is that if you don't have enough institutions of education and research and activity on those two, you start losing aggregated knowledge.

    That having been said, I do agree that technologies randomly disappearing is strange, I don't think tying it to city capture is the way to go.
  9. Tholish

    Tholish Emperor

    Jul 5, 2002
    I did something similar, but just did it with a bunch of events, one per tech. Each tech had a chance to be in danger of vanishing every turn, but you got an opportunity to spend some funds on education to keep the tech from going away. I found that every turn was way too often--more like every 5 turns is better. Also, it biased in favor of the human player, who tends to be a better tech broker. Tech trading becomes very important, because each civ loses different techs. And since I tied the cost of keeping the tech to the cost in beakers to research it, you would tend to let advanced techs go (unless you were rich) and almost always keep cheaper more primitive ones.

    Also, it was simply annoying to constantly be shaken down. This in fact simulates the need to spend on education or lose tech, and does it in a simple way, but the right way would be to have it happen only if you weren't maintaining enough educational institutuions, but in standard Civ IV buildings just get built and never go away or require maintenence (which is folded into general city maintenance with great loss of resolution, as it were).

    So the problem with doing tech maintenance is part and parcel of the problem of building permenance--as you see with this perpetua tech lossl mod without building permenance: you build all the buildings and then can only build units and make war. Buildings should go away when the conditions for them go away--the prereq tech is lost, the prereq bonus is lost, the prereq rel is lost, etc...In standard civ, there is no provision for this because there are no inquisitors, or bonuses (as supplies rather than materials for buildings--ie required for the building to function rather than for it to be built--other than power with a bonus which is done differently). If buildings went away when the conditions for their construction were not there, financial building maintenance decisions could become one of those conditions, which would require ai change so the ai could make good decisions about what buildings to keep. Probably just on the same basis as it decides what buildings to build.

Share This Page