Formula 1 2009

[Formaldehyde]

Sebastian Vettel Explains The Rule Changes

 

[Bigfoot3814]

So the races will be more exciting then I guess?

 

[dutchfire]

Seems like sponsorship is taking a hit though.

 

[holy king]

it's never gonna be the same again as it was in the time when the drivers knew they had a quite good chance to die in the race.

schumacher was one of the last of them. it wasnt a pretty personality he developed due to this but it sure was an interesting one.


look at hamilton today. the charisma of a city litter box.

 

[raketooy]

Wow, the cars look much different now!

 

[Formaldehyde]

it's never gonna be the same again as it was in the time when the drivers knew they had a quite good chance to die in the race.

schumacher was one of the last of them.

That's been quite a while now. Jackie Stewart revolutionized racing safety in the early 70s. Just a few years before that, the drivers didn't even use seat belts. They actually thought they would have a better chance of living if they got thrown clear. And by the 80s, road racing deaths were virtually unheard of. Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna dying on the same weekend was simply freakish.

it wasnt a pretty personality he developed due to this but it sure was an interesting one.

Schumi got a lot of criticism for his driving a couple of times, but he was clearly one of the great ones. Ayrton Senna was no angel either. He deliberately wrecked Alain Prost one year to win the drivers championship as many people claim Schumacher did twice.

look at hamilton today. the charisma of a city litter box.

There I disagree. I think he is very personable and he's certainly no Mika Hakkinen. It is simply phenomenal that he almost won the title in his rookie year and accomplished it his second one.

 

[holy king]

That's been quite a while now. Jackie Stewart revolutionized racing safety in the early 70s. Just a few years before that, the drivers didn't even use seat belts. They actually thought they would have a better chance of living if they got thrown clear. And by the 80s, road racing deaths were virtually unheard of. Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna dying on the same weekend was simply freakish.

of course it's been a process up until the 2000s, but nowadays it really is almost like driving in a simulator. they can crash into walls at 250 and then just get out of the car by themselves.

Schumi got a lot of criticism for his driving a couple of times, but he was clearly one of the great ones. Ayrton Senna was no angel either. He deliberately wrecked Alain Prost one year to win the drivers championship as many people claim Schumacher did twice.

i'm not particularly talking about the reckless driving style (hamilton's got that too) but about his personality. like openly celebrating his win the day senna died.

back in the day it was the people who drove by a burning car to win the race that won the championships, not the ones who stopped and tried to put out the flames.
(yes, there was a time when this was indeed the fastest way for anyone to get to a crashed car to help)

There I disagree. I think he is very personable and he's certainly no Mika Hakkinen. It is simply phenomenal that he almost won the title in his rookie year and accomplished it his second one.

my point is that he's a kid who didnt have to go through any of the stuff drivers went through in the past to win the championship.

 

[Formaldehyde]

of course it's been a process up until the 2000s, but nowadays it really is almost like driving in a simulator. they can crash into walls at 250 and then just get out of the car by themselves.

As I stated, it's been that way in F1 for quite a while now. Virtually nothing has changed in the past 30 years except for the requirement to use a HANS and slight improvements or changes in the facilities to deal with greater speeds, such as additional runoff or chicanes. There will continue to be the occasional death. It simply can't be avoided completely. It is an inherent element of the sport, albeiit much smaller than it used to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_in_motorsports

Now, NASCAR is a bit of a different story. They got their big safety improvements due to the death of DE. Before that, they were quite cavalier about this subject. DE killed himself by his own stupidity and ignorance, but of course NASCAR still can't admit to that.

i'm not particularly talking about the reckless driving style (hamilton's got that too) but about his personality. like openly celebrating his win the day senna died.

You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2mqzX0-4ck

Give me a break.

back in the day it was the people who drove by a burning car to win the race that won the championships, not the ones who stopped and tried to put out the flames.

(yes, there was a time when this was indeed the fastest way for anyone to get to a crashed car to help).

It still is in some instances, especially rallying where it can take up to 5 minutes for any help to arrive, which is the next car that is competing. If I ever saw a burning car during one of my amateur road races, I'd certainly stop to help. After all, the drivers are wearing firesuits while the corner workers aren't, so it would be much safer for them to reach into a burning car and help to remove an unconscious or disabled driver. I would think any driver at any level would do the the same thing, despite what Hollywood may suggest otherwise.

my point is that he's a kid who didnt have to go through any of the stuff drivers went through in the past to win the championship.

Well, I'm saying I don't really agree in any manner, shape, or form with that. The only difference between Hamilton and any of the other great drivers who have come along recently is the color of his skin, and that he met Ron Dennis (who took an interest in him) at a very early age. But with his talent, it would likely have only taken a bit longer to get where he is today if he hadn't.

 

[Sofista]

of course it's been a process up until the 2000s, but nowadays it really is almost like driving in a simulator. they can crash into walls at 250 and then just get out of the car by themselves.

Little anecdote about Schumi (a guy from my village is in the Ferrari racing team):

One day in practice he did just that: he crashed at 200+ Km/h. Emerging from the rubble as if he'd just walked out of his car, he addressed his mechanics thus: "Put it back together by tomorrow: we're going to continue testing".

 

[Irish Caesar]

Now, NASCAR is a bit of a different story. They got their big safety improvements due to the death of DE.

Sorry to nitpick...

...but not even Earnhardt's death accomplished that.

Blaise Alexander had to die in Charlotte from the same kind of crash later that year before NASCAR mandated the HANS. But hey, he's not famous, Earnhardt is, so people say it was because of him. The sanctioning body doesn't deserve even that much credit, minimal though it is.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Sorry to nitpick...

...but not even Earnhardt's death accomplished that.

Blaise Alexander had to die in Charlotte from the same kind of crash later that year before NASCAR mandated the HANS. But hey, he's not famous, Earnhardt is, so people say it was because of him. The sanctioning body doesn't deserve even that much credit, minimal though it is.

Actually NASCAR doesn't mandate the HANS like F1 and the IRL does. You can still use other devices that don't work nearly as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device

Starting in July 2007, many sanctioning bodies have approved any head-and-neck restraint which passes the SFI Foundation Specification 38.1 standard. They are the HANS, Moto-R Sport, R3, Hutch-II, Hutchens Hybrid, or Hybrid X.

And other drivers died after Earnhardt due to basal skull fractures. Blaise Alexander was just one of them. J. D. McDuffie and Clifford Allison also died that way as well before NASCAR mandated them.

Notable race car drivers who died from Basilar skull fractures include:

Formula 1 driver Roland Ratzenberger[3] in the 1994 San Marino Formula One Grand Prix
Indy 500 drivers Bill Vukovich, Gordon Smiley, and Tony Bettenhausen
NASCAR drivers Adam Petty, Tony Roper, Kenny Irwin, Neil Bonnett, John Nemechek, Blaise Alexander, Dale Earnhardt, J. D. McDuffie and Clifford Allison
CART drivers Jovy Marcelo and Gonzalo Rodriguez

But the big push for racing safety was primarily due Earnhardt's death, even though many of those changes took years to implement. Nowadays, you wouldn't even recognize the cockpit of a modern Sprint car compared to the one DE drove. The seat has been improved greatly with side bolsters to keep the head from moving in the event of a side collision. The belts and harnesses are now properly installed and inspected by NASCAR before each race, just as other sanctioning bodies have been doing since their inception. Safer Barriers are installed at all the oval tracks. And the cars have been completely redesigned with safety as a primary design goal.

Unfortunately, racing safety is a very reactive process. Historically, nothing gets done until someone famous dies.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

Well, it now looks like the team-formerly-known-as-Honda will be on the grid this season, with Jenson and Rubens retaining their seats. Good news, and I have to say I'm glad that they are sticking with Rubhino over Senna. He outperformed Button last season and fully deserves to stay in the sport.

I can hardly wait for the new season to get going - it will be very interesting to watch how all the rule changes pan out. I know alot of people think the new cars are ugly, but personally I think they look great. Much cleaner and sleeker looking without all the aero apendages.

However, I'm not especially enamoured with KERS, as I dislike the idea of the drivers having a 'push to pass' button. I'd rather the drivers pass eachother by skillful driving than by hitting a boost button half way down a straight. It might increase overtaking, but in a way that's not the sort of overtaking I want to see, if you undestand what I mean.

While I'm on the subject of overtaking, one of the biggest obstacles to overtaking in F1 today is the short braking distances. If you were to increase the stopping distances of the cars then you would see more overtaking, as there would be more opportunity for drivers to outbrake eachother on the approach to corners.

 

[Masquerouge]

Wait, if I got the video right, did they just introduced the equivalent of a nitro boost in Formula 1?

If yes, that's awesome!

 

[dutchfire]

Don't they also have that in A1 Grand Prix of Nations? It seems to work there, makes the race more exciting.

 

[raketooy]

Wait, if I got the video right, did they just introduced the equivalent of a nitro boost in Formula 1?

If yes, that's awesome!

Yeah, something like that. I've always wished that real racing would be as awesome arcade!

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

I believe A1 GP does use push to pass, but I don't particularly want to see it in Formula One. It remains to be seen just how effective the KERS systems will be, or even if the whole field will be using one for the first few GPs, but boost buttons just aren't what racing is about for me. It's too much of a gimmick.

 

[Joe Harker]

To be honest, i'd be susprised if any of the teams start with Kers, it seems to be causing problems and several teams are definitly not running it this season (part in thanks due to the ban on in-season testing )

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

They can still test during the practise sessions at race weekends. My feeling is that all the teams will be running KERS by the midpoint of the season at the latest... at least some of them will be running it in Melbourne (McLaren and BMW seem pretty safe bets).

Anyway, McLaren look to be having some trouble at the moment... lots of reliability problems and they're still running last year's rear wing which is a bit odd with less than a month to go until Melbourne. Testing gremlins or have they built a dog?

 

[Rossiya]

There I disagree. I think he is very personable and he's certainly no Mika Hakkinen. It is simply phenomenal that he almost won the title in his rookie year and accomplished it his second one.

I think Hakkinen has tons more charisma than Hamilton.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Good news, and I have to say I'm glad that they are sticking with Rubhino over Senna. He outperformed Button last season and fully deserves to stay in the sport.

I agree, although I'd like to see both of them driving. But if push comes to shove, I'd prefer to see Rubens giving it another go. Bruno Senna still has a long time to land a better ride in the future while Rubens obviously does not. He obviously should have never left Ferrari on his own. What could he have possibly been thinking?

I know alot of people think the new cars are ugly, but personally I think they look great. Much cleaner and sleeker looking without all the aero apendages.

Once again, I agree. And the return to slicks is welcome indeed.

However, I'm not especially enamoured with KERS, as I dislike the idea of the drivers having a 'push to pass' button. I'd rather the drivers pass eachother by skillful driving than by hitting a boost button half way down a straight. It might increase overtaking, but in a way that's not the sort of overtaking I want to see, if you undestand what I mean.

I have mixed feelings about this. I am a proponent of developing new technology that 'reuses' some of the energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. It has far-reaching implications for future vehicles. And push-to-pass worked fairly well in Champ Cars. It adds an entirely different element into the mix. At least in Champ Cars you had to be very judicious with its use, because it could have dramatic implications at the end if one driver had used up his allotment while the other had not. Unfortunately, we don't get A1GP coverage here in the states, so I really can't say how well it has worked, or not worked, in that venue this year.

While I'm on the subject of overtaking, one of the biggest obstacles to overtaking in F1 today is the short braking distances. If you were to increase the stopping distances of the cars then you would see more overtaking, as there would be more opportunity for drivers to outbrake eachother on the approach to corners.

I don't really see how that logically follows. at least as long as the braking distance for all the vehicles is essentially the same. Most passes happen on the straight before the turn. If the following car can't get at least partially alongside prior to the braking point, he's not going to be able to complete the pass regardless of the distance required. And if it's an outside pass, he has to essentially be completely past the overtaken car prior to the braking point to make it stick.

I think Hakkinen has tons more charisma than Hamilton.

Hmm. The videotape seems to suggest otherwise:

Classic Mika.

Mikia wins his second championship.