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Fortress/barricade

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Delphi456, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. Delphi456

    Delphi456 Chieftain

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    If the AI gets to my fortress/barricade will it auto-pillage it, or does it get the defensive value from it?
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    iirc it will get the bonus, if it stays. If it moves on it will get slowed.
     
  3. Theov

    Theov Chieftain

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    they get the 50% bonus so be careful not to lose it and have to fight against it
     
  4. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    During my Vanilla days I used the fortress option effectively in many games. In C3C I find that they are not worth the effort as the wars seem to move forward faster and the fortress is left behind. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just my (low skill) impression?

    I must try a fortress on a checkpoint mountain some time soon. :think:
     
  5. Mizar

    Mizar IM

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    Depends on the intensity of the fight.
    In "normal" games, they're mostly not needed, with exceptions on chokepoints.
    In Always War games, they can be quite valuable (during pike/musket times, fronts tend to crawl real slow).
     
  6. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Chieftain

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    I've repeatedly found that the best way to fight a war is on somebody else's soil or at worst on nonproductive junk edge cities of my own. And there never seem to be enough workers to improve everything, so the fortress has fallen almost completely out of use. The only time I can remember using it in recent years it to guard a resource that for some reason I'm not ready to secure by conquering nearby lands.
     
  7. Everkane

    Everkane Valar Morghulis

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    Fortress are useful when you have just a small passage between you and your enemy and you know the AI is sending their waves from there (they hardly change their path of the waves when they start, for example using the sea).

    It's more usual in continents than pangea.

    I can remember using it only twice anyhow, it's very specific.
     
  8. MarkK

    MarkK Chieftain

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    I've used them, but only along specific tiles that make sense, and against a neighbor that continuously remains as "annoyed" no matter how you treat them diplomatically. You really have a lot of factors to weigh before you waste your time;
    Do you plan to attack soon farther from this point, or will it be a forever defensive point against an always "annoyed" enemy? A well planned attack by you will render your Fortress/Barricades a waste of time.
    NEVER build them along a border that is in question by cultural superiority, especially if your opponent has higher culture, or simply doesn't "like you".
    Remember, if you build a Fortress and Barricade, it has to be protected, and this should be done by your highest defense unit, but they're "stuck" there.
    If you need and can afford time for a Fortess, then ALWAYS build a barricade.
    Ultimately, all these bonuses do to is turn your own grasslands, plains, & hills into mountains defensively, but you have to do the math, whether it's worth it.
     
  9. CivFart

    CivFart Chieftain

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    Something that bothers me, I don't know if a fortress/barricade will be better on top of a mountain vs on plain land. Civilopedia tells me that a barricade gives 100% (percent) better defense, but mountains alone also give 100% defensive, so the question becomes, will a barricade + mountain give 200% defensive value? The docs says nothing about this.
     
  10. Mizar

    Mizar IM

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    yes, the defensive bonuses like terrain, fortification status, fortress/barricade, river,.. add up.
     
  11. CivFart

    CivFart Chieftain

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    So I will not be wasting my time and resources to build a barricade on top of a large mountain? Are you absolutely sure that a barricade + mountain will add up to greater than 100%, since both provide 100%?
     
  12. timerover51

    timerover51 Chieftain

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    I will confirm that as well. All of the bonuses are additive. A fortress with a barricade on a mountain is incredibly hard to take without a lot of work. I have tried those on a couple of maps.
     
  13. CivFart

    CivFart Chieftain

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    Fortress + barricade is an excellent way to store artillery pieces and provide cover for your territory. If the enemy can't get control of the fort+barricade, he can't get the artillery pieces either. I can't think of a better place to stock up than on top of a mountain :) (Assuming there is one nearby and in a useful position)
     
  14. Suisami

    Suisami Chieftain

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    lol I love fortresses and barricades in the late game. Usually at that point i'm no longer expanding, but just dominating the global landscape. So I'll often make an 'Iron curtain' or two to block off the enemy from my over seas holdings.
     
  15. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I rarely use fortresses or barricades. The exception is against overwhelming odds, and occasionally when there's a convenient chokepoint. If there's a really good chokepoint (rare), then I might start a war and let the enemy bash themselves against a barricade for a few turns to wear down their offence. The other situations I can recall using them effectively:

    • When landing on another continent. IIRC, the most climactic game with this that I had was one where I invaded another continent where the Celts were dominant, landing scores of Infantry (nearly, if not, my entire landing force), supported by a couple dozen workers who constructed a barricade on a mountain in one turn. Then I declared war and waited for the enemy Cavalry to attack. It took several turns, one of which had 12 minutes of battles. But in the end, though battered, my army prevailed. Then I could land my offensive troops, and from there the Celts were doomed.
    • In mods where certain terrains aren't crossable by all units. The game that comes to mind is a story of mine that's on hiatus, where my enemy was supremely powerful. Holding the line was a hopeless proposition, so the strategy switched to calculated retreat, using strategically placed barricades to slow them down, and scorching the earth and tearing up the roads behind me with cavalry. The ultimate plan was to defend at strategically placed barricades at the end of unpassable-to-most-units Mountains. That's about where the story went on hiatus; IIRC due to a game crash that I didn't get around to replaying.

    But when the odds are near-even, fortresses and barricades are a tough sell. Potentially useful against a sneak attack, but usually I'd prefer to just put a couple extra defenders in border cities. But there's nothing like a fortified Mech Inf on a barricaded mountain with a river crossing in front of it to stop an attack.
     
  16. rf9381

    rf9381 Chieftain

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    Excellant idea! Thanks for your idea. I need to do this in my current game.
     
  17. scratchthepitch

    scratchthepitch Chieftain

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    Fortresses and barricades are useful to keep idle workers busy and out of the bordellos. Otherwise, they are occasionally useful to reinforce chokepoints, as others have already said.
     

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