Forum Members' Photographs 25: Instagram Is Overrated

[Lexicus]

I reveived this image in a transmission at roughly 2300 hours last night
God help us all

 

[red_elk]

Whether there is an issue with hiring practices, obviously depends on how many male/female specialists are available on the market. Our company has a few female software engineers, but vast majority of engineers are men. In the same time, HR specialists are mostly women, so it's hard to blame them in discrimination of their own gender.

 

[CKS]

Your company could be doing a much better job actively recruiting talented women employees.

In the physical sciences, it isn't that easy. While we've made big strides in biology and medicine, the number of women in physics and engineering remains pretty tiny. It is not the fault of the employer that 90% of the graduates are male. Part of this is the culture of physics and engineering departments and part of this is the culture of our society. Both are changing very slowly, though honestly I think the academic departments are changing more quickly.

 

[MaryKB]

The first company went out of their way to hire female applicants too, to the point where it is a common meme on campuses that that company and a few others hire 'underqualified' women for jobs - as told by butthurt male applicants that got passed over. The CEO is also a woman and is acknowledged as the real driver of the company (and not Elon Musk) by people that work there and follow it closely. Both companies also have a lot of female managers. At one point, my current company's entire management line up was female.

But like, if women don't become welders or technicians or engineers, how can either company hire them? There are real issues with STEM in general and companies are responsible for a lot of it but the issue is a broader societal one than anything that one or two companies are completely at fault for. I could just as easily say that elementary schools discriminate against male teachers because there hardly are any for the youngest grades but that would be silly.

I know it's not your fault, and I believe you your company tries. I'm sorry, I mostly took a bit of umbrage at that knee-jerk reaction of "It's not our fault, it's the women's fault for not applying" ... because you're right, it's a cultural problem, and those industries need to work harder even from an earlier education level.

But I feel my original point has a lot of value, because you and I both agree it's a cultural problem, but part of what makes that a problem is when these kinds of companies make these team photographs, and between two pictures and dozens of people, only one is a woman. When I see those, I immediately start feeling a very strong "Boys' Club" vibe, and that's contributing to our culture that's discouraging for young women to try and enter these fields. I know you're very proud, and you absolutely should be, I started off my first comment trying to compliment you, but do you see what I'm saying about the effect of exclusiveness?

 

[Narz]

Who cares what aesthetic "vibe" you get from looking at a company photo? I don't know jack about hobbs's company but I'm sure they have enough of their plate (project goals, safety standards, etc) without worrying about trying to look like a United Colors of Benetton ad.

Your emotional reaction is something for therapy not any reason anyone here should feel bad about the company they work for.

 

[MaryKB]

Maybe you're not affected, but my first feeling when seeing his photos (after trying to find hobbs of course!) was "This doesn't look like a place where I'd be welcomed or made to feel comfortable." Whether they'd really act that way or not is irrelevant, that's a feeling this generates. If I get this reaction, how do you think it might affect younger girls who are thinking about what field to get into? What do you think causes our culture that pushes girls away from STEM?

Your emotional reaction is something for therapy not any reason anyone here should feel bad about the company they work for.

Suggesting that my calling out of sexism in practice is something that requires therapy is one of the most disturbing things I've seen in a while.

 

[Lexicus]

What do you think causes our culture that pushes girls away from STEM?

*laughs* Well, Actually, it's not culture, you see, millions of years of evolution have conditioned women to act like 1950s housewives, while men have evolved over time to be better at tasks related to hunting, such as running large corporations and writing code.

test your knowledge of Science with this handy quiz:

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/05/evolutionary-psychology-quiz

 

[red_elk]

Whether they'd really act that way or not is irrelevant, that's a feeling this generates. If I get this reaction, how do you think it might affect younger girls who are thinking about what field to get into?

Younger girls may have adequate reaction and don't feel any discomfort seeing group of men on the photo.

 

[EgonSpengler]

What do you think causes our culture that pushes girls away from STEM?

In at least some cases, it's deliberate, systematic discrimination.

The Asahi Shimbun, June 18, 2019 - "Women top men in fair exam for Juntendo medical school"

Female applicants outperformed their male counterparts in the entrance exam for Juntendo University’s medical school, which had previously rigged the system to give men an unfair advantage toward admission.

Of the 1,679 women who took the fiscal 2019 exam, 139, or 8.28 percent, passed. Among the men, 170 of 2,202 applicants passed the exam for a success rate of 7.72 percent, Juntendo University said on June 17.

In 2018, a number of medical schools were found to have manipulated the exam criteria to give first-time male exam takers an advantage over female applicants and those who had previously failed the exam.

From fiscal 2013 to 2018, an average of 9.16 percent of male applicants passed the medical school’s exam, far exceeding the rate of 5.50 percent among female applicants.

So if women ever have the feeling they're running up the down escalator, sometimes... It's more than a feelin'... *air guitar*

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Maybe you're not affected, but my first feeling when seeing his photos (after trying to find hobbs of course!) was "This doesn't look like a place where I'd be welcomed or made to feel comfortable." Whether they'd really act that way or not is irrelevant, that's a feeling this generates. If I get this reaction, how do you think it might affect younger girls who are thinking about what field to get into? What do you think causes our culture that pushes girls away from STEM?

How they feel compared to what is really going on is part of the reason they're not there. There are some positions that do not particularly depend on, or care about, feelings. If someone is put off by a neutral picture, imagining what it might be like, that's their problem rather than the organization's. Regardless of sex.

How people actually act on the job is not "irrelevant". It's what actually matters.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Moderator Action: If the bunch of you would like to discuss inequality in the STEM fields, I would suggest that you open a dedicated thread for just that purpose and post in it. It's an interesting topic and deserves its own little place in the sun, don't you think? This thread is for member's photographs, so let's go back to posting photos, please.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Suggesting that my calling out of sexism in practice is something that requires therapy is one of the most disturbing things I've seen in a while.

Keep in mind that this is forum full of "know it alls" who love to pontificate. On top of that it is a community of mostly male gamers.

 

[Narz]

Maybe you're not affected, but my first feeling when seeing his photos (after trying to find hobbs of course!) was "This doesn't look like a place where I'd be welcomed or made to feel comfortable."

You have an active imagination.

Whether they'd really act that way or not is irrelevant, that's a feeling this generates.

That's a feeling YOU generate. If you can't even see a group of men without feeling excluded that's on you.

If I get this reaction, how do you think it might affect younger girls who are thinking about what field to get into?

Not at all? I dont think most people choose their jobs based on gender balance.

Suggesting that my calling out of sexism in practice is something that requires therapy is one of the most disturbing things I've seen in a while.

What sexism? Hobbs's company is sexist now cuz of your feels? Like I said this is a YOU problem.

 

[Narz]

Keep in mind that this is forum full of "know it alls" who love to pontificate. On top of that it is a community of mostly male gamers.

See Mary, it's safe, in any large group of males there will always be some who will kiss the female's behinds under any and all circumstances.

 

[Ajidica]

@Narz PROTIP: It is generally good to read your posts before posting and ask yourself "Does this make me sound like a [censored]?"

EDIT: To make this post in the members photo thread legal (and so I don't get the wrath of Lemon Merchant smiting me) I'm going to link to a picture I recently posted in the What Did You Buy thread of a new shirt that I got.

Spoiler size :

 

[Narz]

@Narz PROTIP: It is generally good to read your posts before posting and ask yourself "Does this make me sound like a [censored]?"

I start polite and increase bluntness to match the level of ignorance/delusion I'm dealing with. If no one calls it out it will persist.

To stay on topic here's a pic of my daughter petting a dog.

Spoiler :

 

[Ajidica]

@Narz PROTIP: It is generally good to read your posts before posting and ask yourself "Does this make me sound like a [censored]?"
Second verse, same as the first.

 

[bernie14]

... and everyone was an en-eri....couldn't be a willy or a sam....

Edit: yeah, erm..

From xmas, i was about 25 lbs heavier....

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@Narz PROTIP: It is generally good to read your posts before posting and ask yourself "Does this make me sound like a [censored]?"

DAE wonder which insult people use when they censor themselves? It really pains me not to know. I think insults matter.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Moderator Action: What did I say? If you want to debate women's representation in the STEM fields, or anywhere else for that matter, please do it in a new thread. I would also prefer that you do it without flinging insults at each other. The next time I have to leave mod text to deal with this issue (should it continue), I will temporarily close the thread while Arakhor and I get out the Infract-O-Matic. Have I made myself clear this time? Take it elsewhere.