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Found all Religion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Religionfanatic, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Religionfanatic

    Religionfanatic Chieftain

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    I was wondering if anyone else has founded all Religions. I have managed to do it it on Noble with my buddy Ganhdi. And before anyone posts I'm sure it's next to impossible if not IMPOSSIBLE on harder settings. But my real question is what benefits founding all religion has in the late game. My computer is a piece of crap and can't seem to handle the game after a certain point and shuts down!:blush: usually can make it a ways past 0AD.

    I love founding all religions and doubt it is a very good overall strategy I just enjoy it. My favorite benefit is being the Religion power broker. I pick whichever religion I want for myself and then send it to as many people as I can. Oh yeah, except my neighbor he's annoying so he gets Toaism or whatever no one else has and now everyone hates you : ) (I also try to play by not attacking anyone ever) ((having everyone else attack you..... very acceptable)).

    Big question does having all of the religions and consequently the religious shrines ever amount to enough religious gold to make this a real strategy for late game? (which remember I haven't been to yet)

    Biggest downside-not having the techs to put my workers to good use To get all religions on Noble you can't defer the religion techs at all.
     
  2. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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  3. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    No, you'll never repay your investment. The missionary failure rate gets too high with multiple religions in the city. But building 3x7 cathedrals is useful for cultural victory.
     
  4. Religionfanatic

    Religionfanatic Chieftain

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    THANKS! sisiutil

    That was exactly the read I was looking for. My early games always look like this (reading all the other posts having only one city for so long and usually settling only 1 or two more always made me feel like a failure compared to others dozens of cities)

    And it answered my basic question which was what the end game might look like.

    I do build some military though cuz I leave the barbs on which is def the most frustrating part of all religion playing.
     
  5. Zanmato

    Zanmato King

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    On harder levels it is beneficial not to found any religions. Let the AI do the hard work and just take the holy city from them later. It does become near impossible to spread another faith in cities with 3 or 4 faith already being practiced there. By late game these cities tend to be quite large too adding to the failure rate.
     
  6. NuWorld

    NuWorld Warlord

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    Regarding religion spreads, I noticed an odd tendency with missionary failures. Basically, it points out that it's somehow city dependant. I was spreading 4th religion in one of my cities, I build a missionary in one city and he fails. Build a second one in the same city, fails, 3rd...fails. Built a missionary in another city, success. So I reload, I built 9 missionaries in a city that was causing failures, they all failed! Missionaries from 3 other cities were successful, 1st attempt. Could be a coincidence, but streak of 9 failures seems more than coincidence. Just a hint, if someone wants to play with it... :wink:
     
  7. Religionfanatic

    Religionfanatic Chieftain

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    *update played as saladin last night founded all religions by 500 AD (had to reload once... computer beat me to confu... by one turn GRRR). Noble difficulty... Still love playing this way but I'm frustrated that I can't find more ways to exploit this uniqueness seems kinda weak... I build the shrines which is great (have stonehedge, oracle, partheneon, sisten chapel, .. maybe something else can't remember) for pumping out tons of GP early on like 6 before most AI is getting 1 or 2, but w/minimul religion I'm not cashing in on these at all.

    What are the advantages of GP specialist , shrine, or tech. (for Prophet specifically). For all you other Religious nuts which do u choose and y?

    I research budd, hindu, sidetrack for one worker tech, mono, priest, use oracle for theol, col, philo, use GP for Divine Right.
     
  8. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    In your case, if you're in a race with the AI to found all religions, the Great Prophets can greatly assist with this by popping techs for the religions. I often build Stonehenge, then the Oracle, in the same city for the GP points; found Confucianism with an Oracle-based CoL slingshot; and burn the GPs for Theology/Christianity and Divine Right/Islam. Philosophy/Taoism usually requires a Great Scientist to pop, but I think there's a way to do it with a GP.

    If you built those two wonders in the same city (uncontaminated by any other, non-GP wonders), build temples, and run priest specialists, you should be able to generate GPs for the shrines quickly, more so if you are Philosophical, build the Parthenon, and/or run the Pacifism civic.

    This all being said, I don't think founding all religions is, in general gameplay, much of an advantage. Kylearan's game is fascinating, but very much an experiment, and not one I've seen many players say they were interested in replicating.

    The problem I tend to run into is with GP generation and use. All you really need for most games is one religion to provide happiness, production, and/or XP benefits. I usually want Theology early for the warmonger-friendly Theocracy civic; Christianity is just a bonus. DR is a dead-end tech, though it does have a couple of semi-useful Wonders. After I have my religion, its shrine, and Theology, I usually don't want any more Great Prophets; I want Great Scientists.
     
  9. Religionfanatic

    Religionfanatic Chieftain

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    I do find it is useful to have both monotheism and theology.. I often use a spiritual leader (always want mysticism to start) so with no anarchy I regularly switch between them eg. when a new tech opens a more powerful unit set all cities to build it under theocracy for promotion then switch it back to organized religion for infrastructure build. Then to Pacifism for GP points later on. After writing this I realize that I would have to change my gameplan a ton if I didn't study these religions since I rely on these civics alot!
     
  10. MestreLion

    MestreLion Warlord

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    Spiritual learders are great, specially for noobs like me that dont plan ahead and change civics a lot, often just to test it. Got a very easy cultural win on warlord with Ghandi.

    But... you dont need several religions to switch back and forth from OR to Teocracy. All you need is one, am i correct?

    Is there any special benefit in switching state religion along with civics?
     
  11. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    I recommend a game where your objective is to maximize the number of Great Prophets you produce. The results may surprise you.


    The advantage to switching religions (aside from the obvious diplomatic implications) is that doing so allows you to spy on a different bunch of cities (assuming you control the holy city of the new religion).
     
  12. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    How do you end up using them? As super-specialists in a shrine city to maximize its gold output? After a certain point the GPs don't seem to pop very desireable techs, and if the shrines are built, I can't think of another use for them. Does it really make that much of a difference?
     
  13. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Two words: Angkor Wat.

    I'm thinking the map where this really would kick is something like Tiny Islands, where the non specialist production is jack squat. Maybe Saladin.
     
  14. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

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    One game as Qin, I founded 6 of 7 religions and captured the 7th holy city early on. I played it through to a cultural win...
     
  15. The Tyrant

    The Tyrant Prince

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    I've come to the conclusion that the AI doesn't play by the same rules when it comes to missionaries, and I use this to my advantage. I frequently use gifted missionaries to spread religions. When you gift a missionary to a civ with the appropriate State Religion (gift a Buddhist missionary to a Buddhist civ, a Toaist missionary to a Toaist civ, etc.) they will use the missionaries in their own cities first. Then as you continue to gift them missionaries they will send them out to spread the faith in cities of civs they have open borders with.

    I've kept careful track of how many missionaries I gift this way, and what tile they were on when gifted. I then wait for the message about X religion spreading in such-and-such city. It is easy to figure out that the delay between gifting and receiving that message is exactly how long it would have taken the missionary to reach that city. I've *never* had a situation where I gifted a missionary and not gotten such a message in the appropriate time frame. In other words, the AI has never failed to spread their religion using a missionary, regardless of how many other religions were already in the target city.

    You can use this to spread your religion into civs that have closed borders with you if you have a religious buddy that has OB with them. Of course you can't control where they send the missionary but if you keep gifting missionaries they keep spreading the faith with a zero failure rate (good for shrine income). I've not tried spreading competing faiths this way, but it should be possible (maybe run free religion yourself so you can maintain open borders with civs of different faiths).
     
  16. Paeanblack

    Paeanblack Prince

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    This method has the hidden benefit of letting you spend fewer turns controlling each missionary, which effectively raises the number you can build at any given moment.
     
  17. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    and you have less units = less maintenance (missionaries do count in supply costs, don't they?)
     
  18. migthegreek

    migthegreek Back In Black

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    I think I started a thread about this when I was trying to do the same a while back. I've since done it too - founded all religions on Noble, but I'm pretty sure it's probably impossible on a higher difficulty.

    I found the only struggle was getting both Buddhism and Hinduism. After that it's easy, you have enough time to get a worker tech or two, then beeline to Code of Laws - at which point nobody else will be close to Taoism or Islam, so I don't even find it necessary to rush for those two.

    It's quite fun being in control of all religion, but you'll find that it becomes quite a curse when lots of different AI players adopt different religions and all hate you. You then sometimes have to switch to a religion which allies you with the majority, so that you don't get set upon by 4 civs... which, in turn limits the benefits you get from your chosen religion, because it will annoyingly be one you don't have in many of your cities.
     
  19. Religionfanatic

    Religionfanatic Chieftain

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    Great tips every1!

    Great idea paeanblack.. I look forward to trying it. I assume you also get diplo. benifits from the gifting itself?

    Voiceofunreason looking forward to implementing that idea as well. Here is what I'm going to try... found first city in GP farm like area focus on growth then super specialist tons of GProphets build angkor wat. I should have my GP farm from loads of food tiles and still be able to build from the super specialist bonus. + - anyone?
     
  20. GABB

    GABB Warlord

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    I play an "absolutely peaceful" game with Gandhi. Monarch / Random Civs / Continents / Large Map / Quick Speed / No barbarians.

    I Found 5 Religions in Delhi (Bud – Hin – Jud – Christ – Conf) and the remaining two (Tao – Islam) in my third city (Madras).

    My research: Meditation – Polytheism – BW – Masonry – Monotheism – BW – Priesthood – Writing – Theology (from GP) - CoL (from Oracle) - Alphabet – Philosophy – Literature – Divine Right (with GP help) – Music - .....

    My Building: Stonehenge (begin) – Fast worker – Fast worker - Stonehenge (ended by chop) - Bud Monastery – Hin Monastery - Bud Temple – Oracle (choped) – Jud Monastery – Temples – Chris Monastery – Temple – Conf Monastery – Settler – Fast Worker – Fast worker – Settler - Missionaries …..and Angkor Wat

    My army: My first warrior and 1 warrior from a hut.

    The key is micromanage to commerce + growth until you get Bud and Hin (while building Stonehenge). After that, when you reach the happiness limit, switch to workers to chop Stonehenge + Oracle (Gandhi help). Your first GP (from Stonehenge) will discover Theology first. In my game I begin to research alphabet while build Oracle for CoL (Conf). Philosophy in normal way (you can try to crop a Library to turn your second GP into Scientist to get Phi quick, but I do it in normal way). For Divine Right I put my Great Prophet to sleep until research the prerequisite.

    I must admit, I lose this game…:lol: :lol: ... But if I reload, I think I can win…..:goodjob: but I never reload…..:cool:

    I manage to keep friendly relations with: Monty – Saladin – Julius (with different religion) – Mao – Kublai (all aggressive civs :crazyeye: ), but when I almost reach the point to turn my slider to 100% culture…. I was attacked by Mansa…..:eek: ..... I never see that before….. He attacked my warrior with bombard battleship and loaded artillery + Infantry……:mad: ..... I didn´t gift anything to Mansa, I think this was my mistake…..:sad:
     

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