France - Catherine de Medici Thread

[Promethian]

All of the Wonders that unlock policy slots fall into the Grand Tour. Policies are all very strong. The most used ones I would say are even equal to a wonder. Pyramids +1 worker charges. Mid game policy gives +2 charges to workers. These are about equal simply due to the policy coming later. Similar examples abound. Plus no matter what kind of policy slot the wonder unlocks it is going to be very flexible in its use. Able to be switched out for situational bonuses and even stronger bonuses in the later part of the game (some of those modern+ policies are nuts). Frankly I think the Forbidden Palace is the single strongest wonder in the game due to the raw potential of wildcard slots.

 

[Lord Eden]

So anyone here have a guess about what will happen about the extra tourism from wonders that is part of France hability? The build distributed to Youtubers didn't show any wonder providing Tourism what all, and neither any tech/civic starting to provide tourism to wonders the same way that there's a civic that produce tourism from improvements that provide culture. And the Gorgo Live didn't show much.. So either the bonus of wonders are not completely know yet, or France hability will be changed a lot, and maybe this would be one of the reasons that France was not one of the 8 civs from the preview build.

It's just a guess, but maybe the tourism bonus apply not only to the wonder itself, but also to the great works it contains in its slots (I didn't play the beta, so I don't know how the great works system works). If there are only 2-3 late wonders which can directly generate tourism (like in Civ V), the bonus would be very weak.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

You always pick the best cards first so extra cards are not all that great and forbidden palace is hardly the strongest wonder. It may be better for France because France may want to use autocracy which have very few cards.

 

[ExemplarVoss]

I'm vaguely curious what you think is competing with the forbidden palace as strongest wonder.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

I'm vaguely curious what you think is competing with the forbidden palace as strongest wonder.

Pyramids, Stonehenge, Petra, Great Zimbabew, Rush Valley, Chichen Itza, Venetian Arsenal, Colosseum?

Any of these, and actually any of other wonders? Except Potala Palace, which seems clearly inferior and is easy to compare.

 

[hwalt21]

One question I can't find the answer to is ; does the double tourism from wonders only apply to those you built yourself? Or does it also work for those you have conquered?

 

[Siptah]

I was wondering about France a bit lately. It felt like the weakest civ for me for a while. Now I'm speculating about how it's tourism bonus turns out in the full game. I think it may be possible that it will be really, really hard to win a cultural victory when France is playing as well. It may turn out to be a nice boost to win cultural victory, but much more a big defense against the cultural victory of other players.

 

[Promethian]

I was wondering about France a bit lately. It felt like the weakest civ for me for a while. Now I'm speculating about how it's tourism bonus turns out in the full game. I think it may be possible that it will be really, really hard to win a cultural victory when France is playing as well. It may turn out to be a nice boost to win cultural victory, but much more a big defense against the cultural victory of other players.

As long as France survives the early rushers they will get a huge advantage come Castles with the spy. From what I've found a spy doing the steal money mission gains a simply huge amount of gold which can be converted into any kind of power advantage you like.

 

[Siptah]

As long as France survives the early rushers they will get a huge advantage come Castles with the spy. From what I've found a spy doing the steal money mission gains a simply huge amount of gold which can be converted into any kind of power advantage you like.

Yes, that's true. If you get the first spy of the game, all you've got to do is find a commercial hub somewhere to siphon funds. I wonder if you get a message when someone successfully siphoned funds in one of your cities or if you'll never find out when they are successful. If you get a notification, then you'll probably just position a spy in this district...

 

[Promethian]

Yes, that's true. If you get the first spy of the game, all you've got to do is find a commercial hub somewhere to siphon funds. I wonder if you get a message when someone successfully siphoned funds in one of your cities or if you'll never find out when they are successful. If you get a notification, then you'll probably just position a spy in this district...

First spy of the game isn't an if with France. Its a 20-40 turns sooner than everybody else every time thing. Castles comes waaaaaaaaaay sooner than other spy giving techs. In fact with choice tech selection I bet I am underestimating that turn advantage for France's first spy.

 

[Siptah]

Sorry for my bad english. I meant to write "when" instead of "if".

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think the best use for Catherine's first spy will be stealing Great Works.

 

[Siptah]

I think the best use for Catherine's first spy will be stealing Great Works.

If you have free space in your amphitheatre ... Is it possible to steal relics out of the palace? I have never seen that option so far in the LPs, but maybe the AI just never had one.

 

[Sylmarr]

I think the best use for Catherine's first spy will be stealing Great Works.

This, and of course some wonder production sabotage if this is possible.

 

[Lord Eden]

If you have free space in your amphitheatre ... Is it possible to steal relics out of the palace? I have never seen that option so far in the LPs, but maybe the AI just never had one.

You might also have the Great Library and its two slots (even if China or Egypt may have it sooner, but if they do, you're sure they will have at least two slots to steal). Besides, you might get Humanism and the museums just before the other civs get their first spy with Diplomatic Service, which gives you three slots.

 

[elitetroops]

I'm vaguely curious what you think is competing with the forbidden palace as strongest wonder.

I'm having quite mixed thoughts about the Forbidden Palace. It's only real strength lies in flexibility, which is indeed a very good selling point. But if you look at specific benefits it can give you, there are always more effective ways of achieving that by other means. If you want to use the wildcard slot to run another specific wildcard, for example +GS points, you can get those GS points cheaper with added benefits by building campus buildings. A lot of wonders provide GPP in addition to their other effects, which FP doesn't, so maybe you are also better off building some other wonder for those points. If you want to use the slot for an additional military policy, Alhambra is clearly better as it is cheaper to build, provides amenities and GG points.

In most of the let's plays they've been using the wildcard slots mainly for economic policies. Usually FP has allowed a 4th or 5th economic policy in the mid-game. Now if you look at the available mid-game economic policies and what benefits you would get of your 4th or 5th pick, how much is that actually worth? How long is the payback time for your 920 hammer investment? Could you have used your 920 hammers some other way for an even larger benefit than the 4th or 5th economic policy gives you? Not sure yet how much it actually will be worth, can't tell before playing the game. FP might turn out to really be an amazing wonder, but it might also be that it is one of those things that fools everyone into believing it is much better than it actually is.

 

[Siptah]

In the new how to videos, you see that she no longer has wine in her glass, but water. A bit sad.

 

[DemonMaster]

... or it is champagne.

Edit: Since she is holding a champagne glass after all.

 

[Uberfrog]

In the new how to videos, you see that she no longer has wine in her glass, but water. A bit sad.

It would be a shame if that were true in the final game. That would be an absurd thing to censor .

They should've given her an opaque goblet

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It would be a shame if that were true in the final game. That would be an absurd thing to censor .

They should've given her an opaque goblet

Now people will complain it is culturally inappropriate for her to be drinking vodka instead of wine.