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France please

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by DanteTests, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. DanteTests

    DanteTests Chieftain

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    Oct 8, 2011
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    Have been playing Civ 5 with France (liked France since Civ4), but with the BNW had to choose another civ, because France lost everything essential to them. Historically, the new UI is adequate, but practically it gives France a late game bonus only (if France even survives til then). Off course there is multiple ways of playing the game, but tourism bonus doesn't feel like adequate replacement for +2 culture per city by default.

    Usually playing on deity and marathon.
     
  2. McSaucy4418

    McSaucy4418 Chieftain

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    I would actually argue that the tourism bonuses are actually more critical in the mid-game. The culture and tourism from the double themeing bonus in the capital and Chateau improvements are both fairly small and the snowball effect is really where they see value. As a fellow Marathon player I know that by the time you start seeing the effects of tourism there is still much of the game left assuming you are going for anything other than a science victory.

    As far as survivability the musketeer is still above par as a UU in my opinion which is besides the point that I don't think you can argue any civ is so crippled as to rarely make it to at least the industrial era while being somewhat competitive.

    Lastly the with regards to the culture the Chateau can often provide more than the old defualt of two culture per city. Granted you have to work for it and it doesn't come until Chivalry so it less of an early game boon than the old bonus. On the other hand it doesn't disappear, has a gold bonus and can be converted to tourism. All in all a change for the better in my opinion.
     
  3. FeiLing

    FeiLing Deity

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    France is like not having any abilities at all, unless you play a culture game (and then only at emperor or below difficulty, where you actually may end up getting a wonder in your capital that benefits from the UA). That's a total lackluster to me, especially since France used to be a civ that was well rounded and good for any task/victory.
     
  4. killmeplease

    killmeplease Mk Z on Steam

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    i am playing King and happy with France)
    chateau is like trading post with culture before economics
    great in golden age
     
  5. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Deity

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    Theoretically the new patch will make France very good to use their tourism as an offensive weapon:
    Basically stay peacefully till industrial era and grab as many renaissance era cultural wonders (possible even in deity) as possible, then going to the artillery path to wage war and expand. The captured great works plus expanded territory for chateau spam may enable very early cultural victory. Not a bad civ in sp.
     
  6. Hpuk

    Hpuk Warlord

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    Nov 5, 2011
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    Does City of Light affect National Wonders? I don't remember since I've only played one game with BNW France.
    Getting more than one or two tourism wonders is pretty hard on Immortal at least. Only get some thanks to SP tree exclusive Louvre and Uffizi.

    I do actually prefer the BNW France, even though they are a lot weaker now. Before BNW they were a bit flavourless, even if they were a strong civ.
     
  7. lordofdonuts

    lordofdonuts Chieftain

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    According to me, yes, the french UA apply to every building with theaming bonuses in the capital. You get basically the same +4 theaming bonuses for GL or Oxford University if you complete the theaming bonuses conditions (without complete the Easthetics tree).
    There is a mistake about that point in the UA description.
     
  8. leadtothehead

    leadtothehead Chieftain

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    Well France used to be a top social policy Civ with all the added early culture but now that role seems to be filled by Poland, instead France is later game tourism Civ and like EEE BOY said the combination of strong tourism and a French army with foreign legion promotions means quick expansion in the mid-late game.

    I don't know I like empire building and the UI is a cute addition from that point of view, they are not in my top 5 Civs to play but they are not in the bottom half either.
     
  9. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

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    I am currently playing as Spain and founded my capital next to El Dorado. +10 culture (or, equivalently speaking, 5 French cities) right from the start.
     
  10. Securion

    Securion Civ Veteran

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    The UA is easily one of the worst in the game if you play on Deity, but France is not that bad if you want defensive culture...
     
  11. tat501

    tat501 Warlord

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    France is solid still. Turn your first 5 cities excluding Paris into Musketeer factories - whilst expanding quickly to grab as many lux's as possible.

    Then build loads of musketeers - do some conquering - build chateaus around their luxuries whilst building Paris into a big scientific and productive city.

    You should be able to compete scientifically to get at least one wonder in Paris like Uffizi/ Globe/Sistine Chapel/ and even if you don't you can definitely get museum, oxford, hermitage in Paris - which will provide a large bonus on theming.

    Usual tourism rules apply - get archaeology asap - get loads of museums and fill them up - separate your guilds into separate cities so you can run specialists in them all the time etc.
     
  12. Tinker

    Tinker Prince

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    I don't really understand why the UA doesn't apply to all cities - there's only one theming bonus you can get in everything that's not a wonder anyway (Museum) and it's not that strong a bonus to start with.
     
  13. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

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    France has gone downhill...their UA used to be really, really flexible ("boring", perhaps, but still very good!) and now they're pretty useless. I would've loved it if they'd subbed out the Chateau for the Foreign Legion and then added the "City of Light" UA onto the "Ancien Regime" UA - that would've made France even better, with an early- to mid-game culture bonus and a late-game tourism bonus.
     
  14. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    Yes, BNW put France on the operating table and performed a double testiculectomy. They are now practically a blank slate civ with no ability. The way I see it, Poland is the new France. Except that Poland can't get their Liberty settler any earlier than anyone else. France was VERY good, being able to tear through policies. Now I only play them if I want to be at a disadvantage.
     
  15. tat501

    tat501 Warlord

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    The difference being France used to be able to win through getting social policies - Poland can't now. France can win through its new UA though.

    I'm not saying Poland's UA isn't powerful - it is - but it just helps victory - its not a victory in itself.
     
  16. MisterSaturnine

    MisterSaturnine Warlord

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    BNW turned France into one of my top 3 favorite Civs. I love playing them to go for a culture victory, and Poland really is the new old France. Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.
     
  17. ToodleElNoodos

    ToodleElNoodos Warlord

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    I'm sorry, that extent of exaggeration is particularly unhelpful to helping other players learn how to use BNW France as a civ. It seems the real issue is a misunderstanding on how the culture game works now.

    Culture is tall-strat first, wide-approach second. You need to build tall in a culture civ to take advantage of the Guilds and production for Wonders. Later on, you need to go wide for the GW/archaeology slots.

    Ancien Regime, is too old for the new mechanics present in the game. If France was already a culture civ, how does having +2:c5culture: help later on in a culture victory? Mechanically, it cannot. Chateaus and "City of Lights" address that in still ensuring France is pumping out tourism and culture. Chateaus also help defensively, which is important for Culture civs.

    Overall, the culture game relies on having a high population, something that all of BNW France's abilites address. Tradition is still a great tree, and now France is tailored towards Tradition vs. Liberty. The new trade routes can ensure that Paris is pumping out wonders and growing. The higher population ensures filling up market slots and population working the chateaus for gold.

    Musketeers are still essential. Militaristic/Domination civs can win a culture game by sniping out the wonder-whore and taking on it's role while pumping out their own great works. Musketeers give a chance to strike at any other nearby civ for their great works or their wonders.

    I can understand that in higher difficulties, France is weakened, but none of the civs are balanced around high difficulties.

    You can lament the change, but it won't make a difference. France is no more a blank slate than Indonesia/Polynesia on Pangaea or Byzantines smack-dab in a tundra. It's not the same France anymore, so play it for what it's suppose to be, not for what it was.

    TLDR: Let them eat cake!
     

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