I mentioned this in the patch-thread. The production-bonus only works for units, not buildings or wonders. I'm not sure if that's intentional or not but either the effect or the description is wrong.
France
- Thread starter Damirith
- Start date
That's not a helpful place to post big reports.
It was not a big report, it was a question. I have no idea how it is supposed to work, so I don't know what's actually the problem.
GodDamnItAlexander
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2017
- Messages
- 202
I'll just piggyback this thread since you're all already here...
So how do you play France? It seems that he is geared toward an aggressive cultural victory. But that's what I don't get. If you go around conquering everyone why would you care about tourism? The only way to make use of the great work plunder is to not take all of the enemies cities (otherwise you'll get them all anyways), but that seems kinda stupid if you happen to already crush his army. Makes more sense to finish the and job take all of his cities. And if you do that you'll probably lose the city number tourism percentage bonus. Is the idea to go around making vassals?
I don't get it.
So how do you play France? It seems that he is geared toward an aggressive cultural victory. But that's what I don't get. If you go around conquering everyone why would you care about tourism? The only way to make use of the great work plunder is to not take all of the enemies cities (otherwise you'll get them all anyways), but that seems kinda stupid if you happen to already crush his army. Makes more sense to finish the and job take all of his cities. And if you do that you'll probably lose the city number tourism percentage bonus. Is the idea to go around making vassals?
I don't get it.
Gokudo01
Emperor
burn horsehockyy cities, puppet average ( cities which will allows you to unlock a monopoly or gives you strategic resources ) and only control capital and super cities.
Moreover you can got at war just to take some horsehockey cities and sign peace. As france, it's worth
Why would you burn puppy cities? Monster.
tu_79
Deity
Who's the bigger monster? The one committing the crime or the one creating the conditions?
Gokudo01
Emperor
11 (controled) city malus is already -40%, it's huge and you probably lose the "less city" bonus.
I think sacred site should reduce the malus from the number of city over tourism.
Back to France, you have to puppet/raze most of your conquests.
I find it difficult to not win a culture victory if I play tall. I think puppet cities count towards the tourism penalty, so France seems forced to raise most of his conquests
What was the reason for this penalty? You already get a bonus for having fewer cities
That's fair - we should probably pick one or the other. I think the tourism penalty for expansion fits the game mechanics better than the bonus, so I'd rather keep that one.
G
Some user feedback here, I just completed a 22 Civ 'Cultural - Conquest' game and let's say as soon as I reached the Renaissance it was mostly a whole world ablaze, so yeah some number tweaking would be a good idea, heck at some point I became influenced by a vassalised Brazil.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this one is actually independent of the mapsize and the number of cities from other players, it feels weird to me, instead wouldn't it be possible to have a system with both the "bonus for having fewer cities" and a new "malus for having more cities".
That one different, but I think the GW plundering is too exploitable by an human player, I always end up checking if anyone has one for trade then check for a lightly defended outpost, take it, burn it to the ground, let the war ends if there is nothing worth to take and when the peace treaty ends checking back if my favorite art dealer has something new for my collection.
I would like to make a proposition: instead of taking a GW, adding in the capital (basenumber*CityPops*EraMod*GameSpeed) points to Great Artist, Musician and Writers. It would make the conquest reward more reliable and maybe benefiting the AI in the long run.
I'm curious what the others think about any changes about the GW plundering.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this one is actually independent of the mapsize and the number of cities from other players, it feels weird to me, instead wouldn't it be possible to have a system with both the "bonus for having fewer cities" and a new "malus for having more cities".
That one different, but I think the GW plundering is too exploitable by an human player, I always end up checking if anyone has one for trade then check for a lightly defended outpost, take it, burn it to the ground, let the war ends if there is nothing worth to take and when the peace treaty ends checking back if my favorite art dealer has something new for my collection.
I would like to make a proposition: instead of taking a GW, adding in the capital (basenumber*CityPops*EraMod*GameSpeed) points to Great Artist, Musician and Writers. It would make the conquest reward more reliable and maybe benefiting the AI in the long run.
I'm curious what the others think about any changes about the GW plundering.
I really don't see how that's exploitable. I mean that's like letting a war end if there are no decent cities left to take.
Galbias
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2016
- Messages
- 488
It seems like the best strategy for France would be to stay relatively peaceful until Renaissance, because A) that's when their UU is available and B) you're not going to be able to plunder any Great Works early on. Tradition would fit them well since they're good for a Culture victory, but at the same time, their UU is melee and gains a bonus on attack, so it would really appreciate the ability to heal on unit kill from Authority. It could go for either, I guess. A bit like Japan when they still had the ability to get GWAM points from war, though I would favor Authority for them since their UU and UB are both Medieval.
GodDamnItAlexander
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2017
- Messages
- 202
Their power spike is in the mid game. So I was actually thinking going progress. Going wide gives you the
(unit supply), 
and 
to field a big army later in the game, which is ideally when you want to fight. Authority is more suited for early game fighting no?
Last edited:
Just completed a game on Emperor playing France.
Overall, the bonuses are nice and add flavor and certainly emphasize the right "French/Napoleon" traits.
Some feedback:
1. The 10% bonus for subsequent hits is subject to abuse. 5 previous age archers hit a city followed by two current age siege engines and you can wreck a city is 2-3 turns. I would suggest that if you are stuck using % increases (as seems likely with the game mechanic) that this should be capped at 30% additional damage. Other ideas are probably difficult to implement like adding on +1/+2/+3 damage per additional attack such that it's the number of attacks adding damage independent of the base damage of the unit.
2. The change log and wiki seem to have the UA wrong (changed in the 8/16 patch). The new ability as stated in game, is to get Great Writer/Artist/Musician points on city conquest. This is great and very in line with the French/Napoleon theme but at it's current rate, it is way to strong, especially combined with the boost to culture and production. I would routinely get all 3 GPs after a city strike and ended steamrolling all AIs on tourism. First, while the culture boost is well themed, the production boost is gratuitous and should be completely removed. The boost to culture is plenty strong enough. Also the GP boost is much to strong currently. I would suggest something along the following instead:
a) A temporary (15 turn) boost to the GP % modifier (maybe 20%?) in the capitol (I'm not sure if multiple instances should stack or extend the duration).
b) An award of 10 GP points to the generation to a SINGLE random (Writer/Artist/Musician) per conquered city population point scaling with era.
c) Flat out award a single piece of great art (random item) if there is space (if there is no available slot, then the bonus is wasted)
3. Musketeers are a bit strong but not terribly so. However, I found myself compelled to build a ton of them as garrison units well after the Rifleman was available and just before they were going to go obsolete with Replaceable parts because they were cheap at that point and the upgrade cost was more than acceptable to get the promotions. I would either make them obsolete earlier (with introduction of Riflemen), increase their base cost by 10%-20%, or remove one of the better buffs (ignore ZOC, or +1 movement).
Thanks again
-Omin
Overall, the bonuses are nice and add flavor and certainly emphasize the right "French/Napoleon" traits.
Some feedback:
1. The 10% bonus for subsequent hits is subject to abuse. 5 previous age archers hit a city followed by two current age siege engines and you can wreck a city is 2-3 turns. I would suggest that if you are stuck using % increases (as seems likely with the game mechanic) that this should be capped at 30% additional damage. Other ideas are probably difficult to implement like adding on +1/+2/+3 damage per additional attack such that it's the number of attacks adding damage independent of the base damage of the unit.
2. The change log and wiki seem to have the UA wrong (changed in the 8/16 patch). The new ability as stated in game, is to get Great Writer/Artist/Musician points on city conquest. This is great and very in line with the French/Napoleon theme but at it's current rate, it is way to strong, especially combined with the boost to culture and production. I would routinely get all 3 GPs after a city strike and ended steamrolling all AIs on tourism. First, while the culture boost is well themed, the production boost is gratuitous and should be completely removed. The boost to culture is plenty strong enough. Also the GP boost is much to strong currently. I would suggest something along the following instead:
a) A temporary (15 turn) boost to the GP % modifier (maybe 20%?) in the capitol (I'm not sure if multiple instances should stack or extend the duration).
b) An award of 10 GP points to the generation to a SINGLE random (Writer/Artist/Musician) per conquered city population point scaling with era.
c) Flat out award a single piece of great art (random item) if there is space (if there is no available slot, then the bonus is wasted)
3. Musketeers are a bit strong but not terribly so. However, I found myself compelled to build a ton of them as garrison units well after the Rifleman was available and just before they were going to go obsolete with Replaceable parts because they were cheap at that point and the upgrade cost was more than acceptable to get the promotions. I would either make them obsolete earlier (with introduction of Riflemen), increase their base cost by 10%-20%, or remove one of the better buffs (ignore ZOC, or +1 movement).
Thanks again
-Omin
Gokudo01
Emperor
As players there are lots of mechanism that can be optimize or "abuse"
Take the inca in Player's hand it means you can t be attack until modern era.
France trait are linked to war. If you dont have an issue to conquer, the civ feels mega strong like assyria or china, ok not as strong as china but strong
It just means that the difficulty is maybe a little low for you or you did get lots of other factors that made it easier
Because france ai is not that amazing. Can do good, usually finish like england or spain, struggling against lots of cohalised enemies
But rarely becomes a planetary threat
If you are able to shoot with 6 obsolotete archer + some siege on a city, you basicly won the war. Ua gives you an extra shot and yes it s faster.
In the field i struggle to get more than 3 hits against the same unit (hills forest and other units hindering my movement and line of sight )
So it usually weaker than balanced sweden army
Musketers come late and are from the worst unit type so the power is fine. I wont compare it to jannissary or minuteman which are crazy unit but check the impi. You can win while spamming them and siege weapons even after fusilier
I didnt find any kind of objective argument in your post, you just had a nice snowballing game with an unusual pick making you think that something wasnt right.
Take the inca in Player's hand it means you can t be attack until modern era.
France trait are linked to war. If you dont have an issue to conquer, the civ feels mega strong like assyria or china, ok not as strong as china but strong
It just means that the difficulty is maybe a little low for you or you did get lots of other factors that made it easier
Because france ai is not that amazing. Can do good, usually finish like england or spain, struggling against lots of cohalised enemies
But rarely becomes a planetary threat
If you are able to shoot with 6 obsolotete archer + some siege on a city, you basicly won the war. Ua gives you an extra shot and yes it s faster.
In the field i struggle to get more than 3 hits against the same unit (hills forest and other units hindering my movement and line of sight )
So it usually weaker than balanced sweden army
Musketers come late and are from the worst unit type so the power is fine. I wont compare it to jannissary or minuteman which are crazy unit but check the impi. You can win while spamming them and siege weapons even after fusilier
I didnt find any kind of objective argument in your post, you just had a nice snowballing game with an unusual pick making you think that something wasnt right.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,387
I agree it's overpowered. I don't even think the GWAM bonus should be replaced with anything, the reward of +% Culture and Production is more than enough considering you already get a strong combat bonus in the UA and your UI is good enough you can consider peace. I think Musketeers are fine however, they're late in the game so they should be strong and a pain to deal with. Anyway, the UA's war assistance is too considerable to have +60% Prod/Culture + free GWAMs, especially considering the UI's existence. Some civs are looking pretty sad in comparison.
AI's performance is not important. From what I observe, it nearly always snowballs on early decent +yields civs while underperforming on pure warfare ones as it cannot utilise warfare bonuses properly. It does warfare better if it's ahead, and it'll be ahead if it gets early yields, so those civs are typically their runaways. Inca should get it's mountain movement stuff nerfed, though, I agree with that.
AI's performance is not important. From what I observe, it nearly always snowballs on early decent +yields civs while underperforming on pure warfare ones as it cannot utilise warfare bonuses properly. It does warfare better if it's ahead, and it'll be ahead if it gets early yields, so those civs are typically their runaways. Inca should get it's mountain movement stuff nerfed, though, I agree with that.
