Free Speech? George Bush's visit to Canberra

[Simon Darkshade]

No, the Greens were under suspension. The ALP and Democrats greeted him with open arms and lowered trousers.

 

[shaunpress]

Originally posted by Vrylakas
I wonder if anyone in the Australian Parliament heckled Hu Jintao during his speech this past week...? I mean, the leader of one of the world's largest and still quite brutal dictatorships, you'd think someone would feel strong enough to make a public comment.

At the request of the Chinese delegation, some invited members of the public gallery were removed by the Australian government, before Hu Jintao had even entered the chamber.

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by Richard III
As I've said elsewhere, freedom of speech is not freedom of invitation; no one has the right to protest right beside the President just because he's the President. There are several million square miles of other Australian space where people can say whatever they want. And nobody was stopping those people from inviting the media to another location.

And frankly, whatever the merit of their complaints, the Green Senators' arguments are pathetic; they should be ejected from Parliament for the session, period, let alone the day. First, that's what would happen if they broke the rules in a normal session; just because the President is there is no excuse. They have a better forum than millions of Aussies do to raise issues, before and after Bush was there, so to presume that they were first in line to do so because they felt like it is a crock. Once again, the right to speak is not the right to speak constantly at every location, at every opportunity. They don't have that right in Parliament when only Australians are present, so why should they have that right when a guest is speaking? What an embarrassment to civil rights.

As someone who has worked for over 15 years in politics now, I have to say, I've never had any trouble "expressing my opinion," without having to interrupt, heckle or otherwise disrupt the free speech of others. If you have to heckle to get your views across - and, by so doing, deny people the right to hear both sides in a reasoned setting - then your only problem is sloth and a lack of creativity. And so why should your sloth be pandered to?

However, if accredited gallery reporters are traditionally given access to Parliament - which they certainly are in other Westminister Parliaments - and were then denied it, then that is a serious concern, and the one I would focus on.

R.III

The heckling was not intended to be the topic of this thread, more the media shut off from John Howard.

As I have just posted in the heckling thread, i don't think what the greens senators did was right. I also don't like how our parliament works though, the constant "Hear Hear" barrages whenever a party member says something - it's crude and barbaric, is this a modern democracy? So I'd treat these the same as I would the boos and heckles. None of these are an appropriate way for the highest representatives of the people to act. They're no better than children, and misbehaved ones at that.

Originally posted by Elden


You missed my edit to change it to oppresive about ten seconds before your post.

And btw if our senators can't disagree with Bush then how can the public's opinion be fairly represented.

This is my main concern. At no point (well one - the opposition leader's speech) was the public's opinion of opposition to the war allowed to be aired, at any time. While this doesn't excuse the greens senators, it at least makes it understandable. It is possible that the message MAY get through to Bush that it isn't a popular war from the view of the Australian public, and we aren't very happy about it.

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
If Australias voters were against Bush, then why did their government support the Bush? If their government is elected by their people, then they should represent them accordingly. I'd certainly agree that not every Australian supports Bush, but if they are truely against him, then they should work towards getting representatives elected that will reflect that. In most political affairs there is a certain decorum that should be maintained.

At the start of the war, 70% of Australians were against it (not protesting it, but against it). The majority of people had said that war would be fine, IF the UN said it was. This number evened out to a little over 50% after the war - but as Mr Darkshade said, the every day man on the street doesn't particularly care anymore.

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
No, not quite. They do little for the states, and are usually made up of those that have merited the ultimate punishment of being sent to stay in Canberra for most of the year. I say hanging is more humane.

Aye, tis true
tis a terrible place. There be no football, and entirely too much rugby. no cricket either. at least i'll be home for the boxing day test

Originally posted by eyrei
Not allowing them to speak is pretty typical, and being allowed to get close to a foreign dignitary to 'protest' is not a right allowed in any constitution in the world.

but i think they should be within visible range (although not necessarily close - security is a concern, but they should be allowed in visible range)

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
Not forbidden, but expected to do so at the appropriate times. It was not a debate, not a forum for discussion. It was a speech for an international dignitary.

There is usually a question and answer session after - for debate and discussion. This visit broke that tradition. (No excuse - just stating the facts)
...

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
As for ruling the country with an iron fist, and denying rights, see the above reference to living in a bloody dream world. If this is a country ruled with an iron fist, then I'd hate to see how the rest of the world shapes up. You want to see an iron fist and restriction of yer precious rights? Take a look at the Darkshade manifesto. Tear gas, cluster munitions and heavy machine guns were invented for a reason, y'know.

I would hardly call the Darkshadian government "democratic" Of course i wouldn't expect anything other than an iron fist in that case, but technically, we are supposed to be a democratic nation, which means darkshade principles do not apply (by the way, the "iron fist" comment was about the media, not his government in general)

There was a plan amongst a number of Labour (opposition) MPs to turn their backs on the president during the speech. Thankfully the opposition leader managed to prevent that from occurring.

As to the "political suicide", Mr Darkshade is quite correct in that a weak opposition will almost certainly ensure the government is retained at the next election. The public feels that they were lied to about the reasons for war, but that it wasn't howard's fault (who knows why they think this, but they do). Nothing has stuck to him. If he is the man of steel that Bush calls him, then he has a teflon coating.

Originally posted by rilnator
I can't think of any other way he could have reached such an audience. He could have lined up with all the other good little politicians and shook Dubya's hand and asked him then but Bush probably would have ignored him.

He did shake Bush's hand at the end.

Originally posted by Akbar
Wasn't Steve Waugh invited to the barbecue as well? My respect for him wou have gone up if he had gone and heckled Bush....

dunno, but the man is a hero. don't think my respect for him could have gone up any more.
-after looking briefly his predecessor Mark Taylor was invited, as well as Steve Irwin would be funny to see steve waugh sledging Bush don't think it'd happen tho.

Originally posted by Vrylakas
I wonder if anyone in the Australian Parliament heckled Hu Jintao during his speech this past week...? I mean, the leader of one of the world's largest and still quite brutal dictatorships, you'd think someone would feel strong enough to make a public comment.

well, those people had already been ejected

 

[Mrogreturns]

Just dropping by for a quick visit so I don't have time to post much, but, as I've said before, the worst part about being leftie is one's fellow lefties.

 

[Sims2789]

the media not getting the speech isn't a violation of free speech, but the protestors getting pushed away is.

 

[Elden]

Originally posted by sims2789
the media not getting the speech isn't a violation of free speech, but the protestors getting pushed away is.

The problem isn't that Aussie media didn't get it, it's that we had to beg American's who did for coverage of OUR COUNTRY'S own parliament.