1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

French presidential election 2017

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by AdrienIer, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,124
    Location:
    Sitka District
    He is the Senate.
     
  2. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Paris
    En Marche just gave the name of over 400 candidates for the parliamentary election. Among them is mathematician Cedric Villani, who may become the first winner of the fields medal to become a congressman.
     
  3. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    50,814
    Location:
    up yours!
    So at long last the Greek ideal of philosopher-rulers is to be put into practice?
    And the Dutch, as the links in the ‘related’ section show, are committed to phasing out fossile-fuel engine cars. Eventually others will join, hopefully sooner rather than later, and further reduce the EU's dependence on imports as well as reduce their economic impact.
    Sweden relies on Russia for 100% of its gas… but only 10% of their energy comes from gas. Right?
     
  4. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Paris
    Every week now Melenchon does something detrimental to the left. Last week it was refusing an alliance with the communists. This week it's deciding to run in Marseille, in the only district in the southeast that has absolutely no chance of going to the FN, because it's the district of Patrick Mennucci, popular leader of the PS in Marseille and mostly a good guy. Until last week Melenchon and Mennucci were friends.
    So Melenchon is just there to destroy the last remaining traces of the PS in the southeast, without any intention of weakening the right or the FN in the region. Great. I hope he loses (which is definitely possible).
     
  5. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,376
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Well, at least it illustrates perfectly why I didn't like nor trust him.
     
    AdrienIer likes this.
  6. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,600
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Philippines
    Well, he is the youngest French leader since Napoleon. :king:
     
  7. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,685
    The "appointment" of the PCF as "leader of the left" expired in the... 1950? And the PS expired during these recent years.
    It takes more than one stubborn person to have a standoff.
     
    Traitorfish likes this.
  8. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Paris
    The PS, even in its strongest years made deals with the other left wing parties. It knew that going to an election divided was a recipe for disaster. And this time not only is the left going into this divided, but Melenchon is doing everything he can to make it as hard as possible for the non-him left to win anything (even at his own cost).
    In this particular case, the communists have been asking him for a deal for months. He's always delayed the talks. Then out of the 67 electoral districts where Melenchon came first in the first round (plus the additional 50-100 where he'd have had a chance) he chose one of the stupidest.

    I just spent 5mn looking at the electoral district map (specifically at those were he came first) and I found several districts which would have been much better. It's a deliberate action against the PS
     
  9. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    6,822
    Location:
    Land of the Successor
    Adrien what do you think of this row between Macron and Bayrou over the seat allotment and unkept promises?
     
  10. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Paris
    It's politics at its worst. For all his talks of changing politics Macron is doing exactly what the other parties used to do. One might even say that he's doing the bad stuff that the other parties had stopped doing, by promising something in exchange of someone's support, then not fulfilling that promise. Macron wants the support of the parliamentaries who supported him early, which are mostly former socialists. So he gives them a lot of seats. Then he realizes that looking like the PS 2.0 is bad politically so he is courting right wingers, and giving them seats. Which leaves him with almost nothing to give the MoDem (given that he wants to keep a lot of seats for non-career-politicians).

    Also there's the fact that Macron and Melenchon both want to destroy the classic left and classic right (but don't care at all for the irrelevant MoDem). Melenchon would gain the entire left under his control, and Macron would be in control of the country forever. So Melenchon is attacking the PS, while Macron is recruiting the right wing of the PS so as to tear it down. Now Macron is trying to create a civil war within the right, with (he hopes) the left wing of LR joining him and the right wing either joining the FN (in the southeast) or becoming irrelevant at the national level. Short term that means getting as many right wingers to work with him (even low-mid profile ones), which will enrage the right wing of LR.

    Edit : Frankly the whole seat allocation thing was done in a very amateur way by EM. 14 names out of the 400 were wrong (including some high profile people), and now the MoDem controversy.
     
  11. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,376
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Surprisingly, I'm gotta be a bit lenient on Macron about the nominations. It's pretty hard to establish such a big amount of people in such a short time.
    Not that I don't think it'll be a mess, but I understand the constraints of reality.
     
  12. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,379
    Location:
    Paris
    Bayrou just announced a deal with the EM leaders for a new modified list. The good side of EM so far is that they haven't been too stubborn and have been flexible to correct their mistakes.
     
  13. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,376
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Would be pretty hypocrital from them to not be flexible, considering they want to force everyone to be :p
     
    AdrienIer likes this.
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,510
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    House of Hades
    Let's hope you're right.

    So if the Nazis had been successful it would have been the right thing to do. Your position is at least consistent I guess.
     
  15. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    50,814
    Location:
    up yours!
    What about Valls?
     
  16. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    9,437
    Location:
    Mid-Illinois
    I mean, looking at history, I can't say Commodore doesn't have a point. The successful series of wars and genocides against Native Americans is the reason the US became a world power. If universal human rights and the general idea of not being allowed to conquer territory by force had become A Thing during the Enlightenment, and the US colonists decided to stop at the east coast and treat all further Native American groups as real sovereign nations that should generally not be attacked without a very good reason, then the US would be smaller and poorer today.

    In real life, of course, we waged a series of wars and genocides (after disease had already weakened them) until white Americans had full control of the whole continent's midsection, and the few survivors were consigned to worthless plots of land in the middle of nowhere. Then human rights became A Thing, and now we feel bad about it, while continuing to reap the benefits to this day. Quite convenient.

    If Hitler had pulled the same thing off - which was explicitly modeled off our own conquest - and conquered most of continental Europe while successfully exterminating all the people he didn't like, the next generations of Germans living in all the new Lebensraum would probably start feeling bad about what happened while enjoying all their nice rich Ukrainian soil, and Caspian oil and gas, and so on. Hitler would eventually die and something more democratic might be set up, and eventually (by early to mid 21st century) textbooks would mention the horrible atrocities. And there would be scholarships for whatever little impoverished pockets of non-Germanized Slavic survivors still existed, and all 68 surviving Jews would be able to come out of the closet and benefit from them too.
     
    Commodore likes this.
  17. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    59,143
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    It isn't very hopeful to have even your opening move be bad.

    "I want to believe", but the signs are sadly that Macron will be far less positive even than Hollande, who practically didn't do anything other than stay silent and silently accepting that France is over the debt to gdp ratio allowed for non-austerity but isn't getting austerity, much like Germany was in the past and again didn't get penalized. Remind me again why Finland also didn't get austerity? Nice that the law applies the same to all members of this union, else it would be risking dissolution.
     
  18. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,059
    It would have been the right thing for them and anyone who allied themselves with the Nazis since that would be the commonly held moral belief in the society they would have built had they been successful.
     
  19. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    50,814
    Location:
    up yours!
    You're skirting dangerously close to a social theory based on ‘might makes right’.
     
  20. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,124
    Location:
    Sitka District
    As opposed to 'money and might makes right'.
     
    Kyriakos likes this.

Share This Page