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French presidential elections - Who would you vote for ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Marla_Singer, Apr 12, 2007.

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Who would you vote for ?

  1. Gérard Schivardi (PT)

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. Arlette Laguiller (LO)

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  3. Olivier Besancenot (LCR)

    6 vote(s)
    4.9%
  4. José Bové (RAG)

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  5. Marie-Georges Buffet (PCF)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Dominique Voynets (Verts)

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  7. Ségolène Royal (PS)

    29 vote(s)
    23.6%
  8. François Bayrou (UDF)

    28 vote(s)
    22.8%
  9. Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP)

    32 vote(s)
    26.0%
  10. Frédéric Nihous (CPNT)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Philippe de Villiers (MPF)

    5 vote(s)
    4.1%
  12. Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN)

    6 vote(s)
    4.9%
  13. Abstain, go fishing, whatever.

    11 vote(s)
    8.9%
  1. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Where have I told that France and the US were twins ? My point was simply that saying France and the US are two different systems don't mean that the most elementary economic rules are true in both countries.

    If there would be a comparison to be made, it would be between France and its neighbours. They live in the same market, share the same currency, they experienced the same economical phenomenon at the same period of time. You can make the comparison by yourself.
     
  2. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    One of the reasons I liked Bayrou's comments was his focus on small businesses. Small businesses innovate and create new jobs at a faster rate than their larger competitors. They are more nimble and creative.
    I think France should do things that it does best.

    IE Textile manufacturing may not be it anymore but fashion consulting, innovating and design are.
     
  3. Steph

    Steph Multi Many Tasks man Retired Moderator

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    Do you know how many small business companies with have in France, for a country of 60 millions people?

    818,000, for a total of 2,592,000 companies, that's 33% of our companies.
     
  4. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    We have a lesser proportion of small and average companies than other countries having more innovative economies such as Germany, the UK, Canada or the US. Whomp is right, not only small business are those hiring the most, but they create also the new markets of tomorrow.

    Frankly, Bayrou seduced me with his story of allowing small business to hire two tax-free jobs. Afterwards, I don't know how it could be financed, but I believe it's far to be a bad idea on paper. However, well I've already explained why this is not enough in my eyes to make me vote for him.
     
  5. kryszcztov

    kryszcztov Deity

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    Maybe, just maybe, you have a bit more chance to succeed in your life than the scum (but who am I to claim such things ?). Forget your unemployment just for one second, take a breath, and try to analyse your life. Surely you're not a loser.
     
  6. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    Well Marla, that list has an impressive amount of ultra-left-wing candidates! I knew Communism is alive in France, just like it is in Italy, but I would never have guessed there would be a stalinist, a communist, a old-school-trotskyist, a modern-trotskyist, an anti-capitalist and a greeny on the left of the regular social democrats. Imho, the Parti Socialiste is rather extreme.

    Onbefore hand, I'd vote for Sarkozy, but this François Bayrou dude sounds fine too.
     
  7. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    Oh, this is by no means typically French.Politicians are universally, by definition opportunists. Whenever they got a 50.1% support, they'll claim it is the will of the people. But, as we all should know, there is no 'the people'. As a liberal, I strongly believe in the idea we should respect the individual. The government should not interfer, unless needed. It annoys me that politicans think to know what is best for the collective. Such is simply impossible, as the collective has too many varieties.
     
  8. kryszcztov

    kryszcztov Deity

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    Hey Bas ! I was sure this list would please you. :D Many of these lefty candidates are always there. And they don't even pretend they're in for being President (they say so !). IMHO, all of them are not credible :
    - Arlette Laguiller, who has recently said she wasn't looking to be President (could she just disappear ?) ;
    - Olivier Besancenot, whose motto is "Our lives are worth more than their profits", so... I'm not sure in which camp I am, could you elaborate ?
    - Marie-George Buffet, who is saying the word "Left" a thousand times per minute (why should I care about the Left or the Right ?) ;
    - José Bové, who doesn't seem to be really concerned by the fact he's running for President (but he's the less worse of them and actually has some of my sympathy (civil desobediance ;) )).
    Basically they're all there to make some noise, whereas we just want to elect our new President.
     
  9. Tycho Brahe

    Tycho Brahe Emperor

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    I think what France need is to make it easier to fire people, because that would make it easier for business-owners to hire people, and would create more dyneamics in the economy.

    In the period of time when people are unemployed, the state takes (or should take) good care of them.

    “Flexicurity” I think the term is.
     
  10. GoldEagle

    GoldEagle Deity of All Drummers

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    Florida's Space Coast
    Laguiller seems like a tax-raising *****. I like Royal the most out of them.

    But then again, I'm from the US and under 18.
     
  11. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    Even the Dutch ultra left-wing leader, Jan Marijnissen, has stepped away lightyears from the idea the economical cake cannot grow. As far as I know, malthusianist believers have disappeared, long ago.

    However, there is still the idea that if the economy grows, it might very well be possible that only the 5% richest will benefit from it, and that the 30% poorest will actually be relatively set back.

    Jan Marijnissen has proposed a taxcut for small businesses (as in one-man-run-businesses). Quite something far a modern left-wing extremist.
     
  12. Tycho Brahe

    Tycho Brahe Emperor

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    I would like to hear more about their views on EU?

    Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP):
    Proposing to the EU a smaller treaty consisting only of the part 1 of the constitution which would be ratified in France without a referendum.

    Ségolène Royal (PS): ?

    François Bayrou (UDF):
    Strengthening the European Union.
    Does that mean he would sign the complete EU-treaty?

    And where do they stand on EU agricultural funding?
     
  13. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    If that was true then the french unemployment problem could be solved by turning all those unemployed into traders.
    You claim that 35 hours of work are not enough and strangle the economy. And in the same post you seek to absolutely dissociate labor from wealth...

    That's not necessarily wealth, that's price. You and most economists may look at it as a measure of wealth (in fact, the equivalent of wealth), but not everyone agrees.

    Yes, it's really a pity. If you had read something about him you might have found this:
    Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature And Causes of the Wealth of Nations, 1776, Book one, the very first phrase.
     
  14. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    What I wonder too. Signing the treaty would be a great step. However, not signing it and making a far, far, far better treaty would be a bigger step.

    Anyway, what one thinks is strengthening the EU, might be considered as weakening by another.

    I always get the idea that bringing this up in French politics, means political suicide.
     
  15. Masquerouge

    Masquerouge Deity

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    Unfortunately that's true :( The agricultural lobby is powerful in a way that its small size couldn't account for. Most of the French are just madly in love with the old "rural France" myth and usually side with the farmers.
    The CAP is something that should be shot, and shot again, until it's completely dead. We've achieved agricultural independance long ago.
     
  16. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    Has any French politician (of importance) ever publicly said the CAP is crap?
     
  17. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    You seem to have a limited approach of what is exchange. Every economical relationship is an exchange, production is an exchange, work is an exchange, even research and development is an exchange. Let's imagine that you're a farmer selling 10 tons of wheat and thanks to a better productivity, you grow 15 tons of wheat the year after, then you'll sell more wheat, hence you'll be able to exchange more.

    If you'd like to make your own car by yourself, in your garage, you would need hours and hours of painful work. But in a modern manufacturing plant, the worker just need to push a button and check if there's nothing wrong with machines. In one day, he has produced 10 cars. Of course, this is a charicature, but the point is simply to make you see the idea. :)

    Forget the price, there's no price, money doesn't exist. They could just trade objects. The only point is that there's no absolute value, each individual sees a different "utility" or satisfaction he can get thanks to a specific object and the value each individual attributes to that object is dependent on this. And hence, different to the one his neighbour will attribute to the same object. Some people couldn't live without a computer, other people couldn't think living with a computer. They don't give the same value to the same object.

    We're in an island lost in the Pacific Ocean, money doesn't exist, I'm a wheat farmer and you're a cattle farmer. I'm bored to eat bread all the day, and you're bored to eat meat all the day. As a result, we don't give the same value to wheat and cattle. That's why we both agree to exchange wheat and meat, and we're both happier once the exchange is done. Indeed, both of us have exchanged something we considered having less value for something we considered having more value. We are both more satisfied afterwards. We are both "richer".

    Money is just a good which is easy to trade with something else. It doesn't represent any kind of absolute value. If I would produce twice more banknotes, the value of the money will be twice lower, and as a result, all the "prices" will double.

    I've just mentionned Adam Smith because he's a very well-known economics pioneer, not because his words are gold. The modern theory of value has been discovered by the neoclassical school of economics in the late 19th century, one century after Adam Smith.

    What I was denouncing was simply that despite there's no economics class in High School, we still teach us Marxist and Malthusianist theories of economics in litterature and philosophy class, without mentioning any other theories of economics.
     
  18. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    This may surprize you, but most candidates, including the 3 main ones, consider the CAP as an outdated, productivist, agricultural policy. None will blindly defend it in its current shape as Chirac did during 12 years.

    However, very few believe all agricultural subsidies, no matter which, should stop. Most considers that agricultural subsidies remain useful if they are meant to improve the food quality. Frankly, is this that silly ?
     
  19. Tycho Brahe

    Tycho Brahe Emperor

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    Not silly at all.

    But "quality" is such a flexibel term.

    Large porkfarms/factories that produces fairly cheap, fairly tasteless, fairly diseasefree and unpolluted porkmeat. They make quality food. In a way. The farmes say they do.
     
  20. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Already today, there are tons of criteria to be respected in order to reach certain labels of food quality. And inspections are very tough on this. It's not as hard as you imagine.
     

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