Frequent Great People?

[nutranurse]

Now, I feel silly for having to ask this, and please forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere but...

... Have any of you noticed a huge increase in great people spawned in your games? Not just for yourself, but for the A.I. By turn 40 of my marathon game I counted over 23 great people being spawned. In the Elohim's capital alone they had 4 great prophets.

 

[Methuselah]

Yeah, they seem to be quite common now.

 

[Vehem]

Now, I feel silly for having to ask this, and please forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere but...

... Have any of you noticed a huge increase in great people spawned in your games? Not just for yourself, but for the A.I. By turn 40 of my marathon game I counted over 23 great people being spawned. In the Elohim's capital alone they had 4 great prophets.

Turn 40? Definitely too quick - do you have a save game?

 

[Tarquelne]

And I thought three in under 30 turns was a lot...

Checking around I see only one Great Person settled in a city. None on the map.

Someone's killed MC!

 

[Sarisin]

I didn't see that many, but, yes, there are significantly more in the new version of FF than I saw in any previous version, of FFH for that matter. The Luchiurp in my game particularly seems to churn out a Great Engineer ever 10 or so turns. With so many GPs that's why I was complaining about getting the new BIG popup all the time and blocking be able to see the movement of units.

Also, I mentioned this before and I have to say again I think there is something broken with the way you get your own GPs. I have received 19 so far in the 670 turns I have played. Three came by way of techs.

Of the other 16, 15 of them were NOT the ones I was SUPPOSED to receive according to the odds given. I know the odds are guesswork, but 15 out of 16 is significant. I always try to play my cities to produce only certain GPs. For example, one city gets the task of producing Great Prophets. I try to only build Wonders and use Specialists that would give me Great Prophets in that city. In this case, I built 10 GPs in this city and only 1 was a Great Prophet. I have single digit percentages only for Merchant, Bard, Commander, and Engineer (no Sage). Together they total only about 30% and the Great Prophet about 70%, yet I keep getting Commanders, Bards, Engineers, Merchants. The same for another city which is almost all Great Sage. I got 2 Bards there.

I've seen this before and, again, I realize the odds mechanism in FFH/FF is unreliable, but I have never experienced 15 of 16 not being right.

Also, long ago in the strategy forum I mentioned your way around this problem was to do a save/reload just before and after you got the 'wrong' GP. Well, I tried that too, and it just switches to another with a small % instead of the one with the largest.

I guess the only way to be sure of getting what you want is to keep the city at 100% for only one type of GP, but that is hard to do when you have only a few cities and want to build Wonders, etc.

Anyone else notice this?

 

[xienwolf]

Number 1 reason there are more great people:

AI seek and explore lairs.


Number 2 reaosn there are more great people;

With the popups, you actually realize when the AI gain one early.

 

[Tarquelne]

Anyone else notice this?

I've started a couple of Scions games this evening. Only played the first one about 30 turns, and only 13 turns into the present game. But in the present game I've already had 3 Awakened spawn. (~4% chance/turn.) The other game wasn't far off that rate.

Something seems screwy, but obviously a larger sample size is needed... I've been absurdly lucky before.

 

[Sarisin]

Number 1 reason there are more great people:

AI seek and explore lairs.


Number 2 reaosn there are more great people;

With the popups, you actually realize when the AI gain one early.

Hmmm, I'm not sure there isn't a Reason Number 3 we don't know about yet.

Aren't the odds of getting a Great Person from a lair, etc. very slim? I know I don't get them very often - even when I was the only one who could explore them I didn't get that many. They are a great find, but expecting to get more than 1 or 2 might be a reach. In FFH I started charting results from lairs, barrows, dungeons, etc. and found that bad results outnumbered good results 3 to 1. Yes, I know there is a lot of discussion about whether something is really good or is it bad, or is it neutral, etc. I just used the criterion if my explorer was killed or damaged (including disease, wither, etc.) it was bad. Anything else I called Good (again, things like Lair empty, teleporting, etc. it is hard to call good).

I suggest if you want to have a bit of fun, just record the results and you might be surprised.

Anyway, I never got many GPs and I'm wondering why the AI might get those.

Reason number 2 doesn't really say why there are more GPs it just says why we might think there are more.

I'm thinking the new features built into this version of FF (Corporations, etc.) are part of the reason, but they come later in most cases. The example I gave previously about Gyrrim Gyr getting a Great Engineer every 10 turns or so, might fit into this category. But, also I am seeing more Great Prophets too and I'm not sure why that is. Maybe the AI is better maximizing its Specialists and GP pts.

 

[lordrune]

Well, lairs give significantly better results now. I found a great merchant & a great prophet in my last game.

 

[Sarisin]

Well, lairs give significantly better results now. I found a great merchant & a great prophet in my last game.

Now, that statement might be the answer why we are seeing more Great People in the game.

And, I would ask why?

What makes the results better now when exploring lairs, etc.?

Do units with the Adventurer promotion REALLY get better results? Do more experienced exploring units get better results? Do Recon units get better exploring results?

I have heard all of these in various threads and am wondering if the best unit to send out exploring is a Hunter/Scout with a lot of XP and the Adventurer promotion.

Then, would it be more likely I pop Great People?

I'm guessing the AI doesn't do that though.

Or, have the percentages been changed in the modmod so that better results are gained from lairs, etc.?

Just wondering as in my first game, I certainly didn't notice any great improvement - I still had my share of explorers killed.

 

[Sarisin]

My 3rd game, this time v. 50d.

In the first 35 turns:

Turn 1 - Great Merchant created somewhere. Hard to believe the AI would explore a lair on Turn 1 and get this. I haven't received many Great Merchants from lairs, and exploring that close to your capital is not recommended - I lost on Turn 1 once when a lair popped a Skeleton inside my newly found capital.

Turn 16 - Great Engineer created somewhere.

Turn 33 - Mahala created a Great Prophet. And, here's where things go whacky. I was right next to her Scout and she did not pop any lairs. Also, I opened the World Builder and the Great Prophet was in Mahala's capital city. A mystery...how did the Doviello get a Great Prophet on Turn 33 (epic speed) and not from a lair?

Turn 34 - Another Great Merchant created somewhere.

Turn 35 - Another Great Prophet created somewhere.

That's 5 Great People in 35 turns.

How about me? Well, I explored in the first 75 turns 11 lairs and didn't get a Great Person. I got plenty of Gold, though. (there is an error there that says VILLAGERS gave me the Gold and that doesn't make sense). Also, more than enough Orcs coming out of the lairs, and I posted one very special reaction in the Balance Thread. Except for that last Ogre Explosion, my Scouts survived the exploration.

So, I'm still not convinced that all these Great People are coming from AI lair exploration. Especially the bit with Mahala's Great Prophet in my game tells me something is fishy here, but I don't know what it is yet.

 

[Vehem]

My 3rd game, this time v. 50d.

In the first 35 turns:

Turn 1 - Great Merchant created somewhere. Hard to believe the AI would explore a lair on Turn 1 and get this. I haven't received many Great Merchants from lairs, and exploring that close to your capital is not recommended - I lost on Turn 1 once when a lair popped a Skeleton inside my newly found capital.

Turn 16 - Great Engineer created somewhere.

Turn 33 - Mahala created a Great Prophet. And, here's where things go whacky. I was right next to her Scout and she did not pop any lairs. Also, I opened the World Builder and the Great Prophet was in Mahala's capital city. A mystery...how did the Doviello get a Great Prophet on Turn 33 (epic speed) and not from a lair?

Turn 34 - Another Great Merchant created somewhere.

Turn 35 - Another Great Prophet created somewhere.

That's 5 Great People in 35 turns.

How about me? Well, I explored in the first 75 turns 11 lairs and didn't get a Great Person. I got plenty of Gold, though. (there is an error there that says VILLAGERS gave me the Gold and that doesn't make sense). Also, more than enough Orcs coming out of the lairs, and I posted one very special reaction in the Balance Thread. Except for that last Ogre Explosion, my Scouts survived the exploration.

So, I'm still not convinced that all these Great People are coming from AI lair exploration. Especially the bit with Mahala's Great Prophet in my game tells me something is fishy here, but I don't know what it is yet.

I've watched the first few Great People of a game pop from lairs, so that's definitely a factor - I'm not too keen on how frequently that's happening at the moment, but need to look at how much it has changed since 043...

Regarding Mahala - doesn't the Ceridwen constellation event allow an Evil civ to gain a Great Prophet for a small amount of gold?

 

[Sarisin]

I've watched the first few Great People of a game pop from lairs, so that's definitely a factor - I'm not too keen on how frequently that's happening at the moment, but need to look at how much it has changed since 043...

Regarding Mahala - doesn't the Ceridwen constellation event allow an Evil civ to gain a Great Prophet for a small amount of gold?

I didn't recall seeing that event, and it is doubtful that Mahala had the required Gold anyway on that turn. I'm sure she was running at 0 per turn, but who knows, maybe lucky getting Gold from lairs/goody huts. I sure got a lot of Gold from them.

All I can say is yes, it certainly is possible that the AI is now VERY lucky in getting this many GPs from lairs, while I seem to have the opposite luck. Maybe there should be some sort of delay on getting very good results, like GPs, just as there is in getting very bad results like nasty bosses.

But, it does make for a very exciting early game now that the AI is explore-happy as you said.

 

[WarKirby]

I saw 2 great people being created on Turn 16 in my first FF game. It does seem a bit much

 

[Brokenbone]

It "seems" they might be popping up frequently with the AI these days, maybe the popups with pictures and flavor text are what makes it stick out in my mind. Kudos to the writers of those by the way, lots of interesting blurbs associated with the great people etc. (I got a good laugh about some Merchant who called himself a "human trader" and the associated explanation).

Anyhow, maybe it is all tied to lairs. *shrugs*

The one mention of a constellation though, I've never been clear if ALL players get the same constellations at the same time, that is, if I get the Amathon event, does that mean 8 other civs are getting it too, and the ones with good alignment and gold are able to benefit? I mean, everyone sees a constellation at the same time you'd figure, but I've no reason to believe that events work like that (so in that Mahala and a Prophet thing, would the human player necessarily know if the evil "get a prophet for $" event had just come up for the Doviello?)

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Nothing strange the way I see it. The AI players are many and the player is one. You can easily get a GP by turn 35 if you run pacifism and you have an elder counsil, even faster with mystisism and both elder counsil and pagan temple. Add a lucky event or a nice lair result...

 

[Sarisin]

Nothing strange the way I see it. The AI players are many and the player is one. You can easily get a GP by turn 35 if you run pacifism and you have an elder counsil, even faster with mystisism and both elder counsil and pagan temple. Add a lucky event or a nice lair result...

It depends what game speed you are using, right? The examples I gave were from Epic speed.

I don't think it would be possible in Epic speed to build much besides a defender and maybe Palisades or another defender by turn 35. In epic speed city growth takes time and you likely will not assign a specialist in the early going when you need growth/production more. Getting Mysticism and building an Elder Council and Pagan Temple will be way after turn 35 in most, if not all games.

I can see the AI getting very lucky with lairs, but at epic speed, I just don't see them getting a GP by turn 35 from a city.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

It depends what game speed you are using, right? The examples I gave were from Epic speed.

I don't think it would be possible in Epic speed to build much besides a defender and maybe Palisades or another defender by turn 35. In epic speed city growth takes time and you likely will not assign a specialist in the early going when you need growth/production more. Getting Mysticism and building an Elder Council and Pagan Temple will be way after turn 35 in most, if not all games.

I can see the AI getting very lucky with lairs, but at epic speed, I just don't see them getting a GP by turn 35 from a city.

You are right about the speed. However perhaps it is part of the bonuses the AI can get from higher difficulty levels...What is your difficulty setting?

 

[DavidB1111]

Difficulty might have something to do with it. I've noticed an increase in Great People. In my scions game, there were sometimes two great people pop-ups in a turn. I hazard a guess by turn 412 on normal speed, that at least 60 great people spawned throughout the world, and I only spawned a dozen. I love GPP boosting buildings.
I usually stack my world wonders in one city, until the late game.

 

[TimSLS]

I think alot are coming from random events also (constalations, and there are a few others). Rather than simply listing how many great people are coming in your game, perhaps also add how many players are in it, and whether you have living world turned on, and game speed? I like to play with 30 players, normal speed, living world, and I tend to get a popup about a great person every 5 turns or so. Meaning each AI is expected to get one every 150 turns....which doesn't worry me much.