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Friend, I have a serious matter to discuss...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by happyturtle, May 3, 2014.

  1. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    No, it is always something that you have control over, One other think you declare friendship with enemy of this nation why have friendship with them, or declare war on there friend or something similar.
     
  2. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    No, you're wrong about this. I have gotten this without having done any of the things you're mentioning.
     
  3. ObadiahtheSlim

    ObadiahtheSlim Chieftain

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    I've seen it happen once before. The celts where pretty universally hated. I had maintained cordial relations with them, but I guess they didn't like me being all BFF with the dutch. I was given the ultimatum to denounce the dutch. I refused and got a DoW for my troubles.
     
  4. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    As others have noted, this has not yet happened to me in over 400 hours of play. I wonder if the reason is mere chance or something different in playstyles.

    Anyway, the mechanic seems pretty unpleasant from what I'm hearing of it now. A friend asking you to denounce someone and then declaring war on you if you don't? If that happens to me, I'll probably say no just to have him declare war so I can put him in his place.

    Especially considering that apparently, they sometimes often ask you to denounce your friend, yet when you comply you still get the "backstab" red modifier with them? What in the world? It's like a trap for the player. It's similar to that other ridiculous situation, where AIs will sometimes ask you to declare war on a friend, yet when you say yes, you still get the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    It happened to me many times and every time it was after unfriendly action from me. Basically again it is last dich demand, usually there bad consequences what ever you do.
     
  6. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    My playstyle is to play friendly in early game, choosing a few Civs to make nice with and hopefully get a DoF circle-jerk going. I'll keep that up until Industrial at least, at which point someone will break the alliance, and then everyone still in it will turn and chain-denounce... rinse and repeat until everyone hates each other.
     
  7. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    I think this is the trigger, but they must be mortal enemies and not that they just don't like each other. You're not meant to be befriend 2 mortal enemies as when the first DOF comes in the second civ is programmed not to like you denying any prospect of a DOF in the near future. In saying that I have seen the "second" civ ask for a DOF, which I suspect is a ploy to split a happy relationship.

    In G&K this happened to me all the time, now as probably because I understand the diplomacy system better I think I've only ever been asked twice in BNW.
     
  8. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Not as often as with this situation, but turning down a DOW request can also mean that your are a target. I guess that is old news?

    Getting the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place is broken. I wish there was a way to check the diplomacy screen before saying yes/no. I often cannot remember if a DOF or RA is active. I agree that it seems to mostly be about setting a trap for the player, more so than harming the 3rd civ.
     
  9. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    Well said.
     
  10. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    There is . . . but it requires a mod which will prevent you from earning achievements. InfoAddict has the old-school Diplomacy web/wheel from previous civs, and allows you to access it from the Diplo screen.
     
  11. Feurisson

    Feurisson Chieftain

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    Sometimes hovering over their status (hostile/friendly/...) shows you the different modifiers. Not sure if that always works, though.
     
  12. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    I keep waiting for it to happen in my current game. I spawned right next to Shaka. Half the world has denounced him, and if there's a hidden diplo modifier somewhere that tells the other AIs that I'm gifting Shaka luxuries and paying him to go to war with anyone who isn't me. This would seem to be a genuine provocation for someone to insist I denounce him, but it hasn't happened yet.
     
  13. eldiablonoche

    eldiablonoche Chieftain

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    I always assumed it was just ham-fisted programming ensuring you don't run a peaceful game without paying for a massive army...
     
  14. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    I think he meant he'd like to be able to see whether he has a DoF with the guy he's being asked to denounce.
     
  15. Feurisson

    Feurisson Chieftain

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    I've often done that, only having a few pikemen and little else except for a few ships... and never had that happen.
     
  16. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Yes, exactly. I didn’t understand Feurisson reply to me, so thanks for clearing that up.
     
  17. Feurisson

    Feurisson Chieftain

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    Sorry for the confusion then, I thought you were referring to diplomacy modifiers with the civilization currently talking to you.
     
  18. NASAROG

    NASAROG Prince

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    I'll probably catch heat for this, but this is my opinion.

    Diplomacy is garbage in this game as is the warmonger penalty. Way too easy to game the system.
     
  19. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    It’s a fair point. It seems to me that the denouncement requests (DOW requests too) are actually more likely to come from Civs that you are not getting along with. I am okay with that, but not if it means breaking a DOF and taking diplo hits all around.

    Both are fair points. It may be easy enough to game the system, but that just makes it harder to enjoy the immersive role play aspect. Which is the problem that I think inspired this thread.
     
  20. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    In my experience, these requests tend to come from a friendly Civ who may otherwise have a reason to dislike you. It seems to me that when the AI is having trouble choosing between which allies it wants to keep, it proposes this request with the "denounce/war" result if you refuse.

    It's similar to the rare "demand" screen where if you refuse the demand, the AI will instantly DoW you.
     

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