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From dust to Stars: Brenus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Soirana, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    Oct 13, 2008
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    Time to take a non creative leader for a try.

    Leader:
    Brennus - spiritual, chrismatic. Good traits rather poor starting techs and civ.
    Not really fan of neither UU or UB to be honest.
    Difficulty Deity
    Map: Big and small.
    Prechecked for nonsense like isolated or triple gems, actually pulled that one from set marked as "?", will see how it goes.

    Starting position:
    Spoiler :



    Tad overkill on food and quite some shadows of tundra in south. My initial thought is move scout wheat>hill and if nothing spectacular move settler on blue circle.
    Frees up clam/fish city which might or might not want pick up wheat too [depends if that tundra has some resources worth feeding].

    Have not played big and small for some time - so fix me if I am wrong.
    My imaginative difference between B&S vs fractal:
    - less riverside
    - more coast/seafood - workboat exploration usually needed/GLH being better.
    - more land to settle on average especially if being towards small side.
    - some land layups end being rather awkward
     

    Attached Files:

  2. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Sounds good. I've tested it for you and it says a great deal about the map.
    You may find that it was best marked as "?" :lol: Maybe you have some other candidates in stock? Or a good deal of determination? That could do as well...
     
  3. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    Well, given my regular pace of 15 turns per month determination can be found. Probably...

    Played a bit due to all this "?" talk.

    After moving units


    Tundra was not enough ice also shows up. I've spent some time examining northern fish, shades of blue in particular looks very much like very is some coast [light blue shade] in NW of it.
    Maybe it will be possible to expand into "small" part instead of that glorious ice.

    Settled on that PH me thinks extra hammer and early warriors will be needed with all that barb inviting enviroment.

    on t5 met Hatchepsut and Isabella
    looks like Egyptians are in rather deep east:
    Spoiler :



    Western part promises some land reachable via sailing
    Spoiler :

    There is land straight west of there settler has started and land near fish. Looks like pretty much must go for GLH situation and try not be snack for barbarians situation so far.
    Don't think with celtian starting techs I can try get decent shot on GLH while getting archery, sigh.

    Future barbarian spawning glaciers
    Spoiler :



    Oh, well, I thought it would be worse...
     
  4. admtanaka

    admtanaka Warlord

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    I'm not sure what sort of land you imagined when you thought it could be worse. Yuck!
     
  5. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
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    Make a wall of 4 warriors and barbs won't enter.
     
  6. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Seems I'm not the only one to know... :D
    I did that while practicing my early micro on that beautiful deity start. Got the GLH around 1700-1600 BC.

    No, you just need 2 warriors for unit walling.

    Then, 2 other warriors for fogbusting your small region and then you're fine.
     
  7. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    I am afraid someone will need to indoctrinate me into "warrior wall" thing. I haven't heard of it before:confused:
     
  8. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    Tough start. You have enough food though :p Will be following this with interest.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I don't know about a wall, but you can certain abuse spawn mechanics.
     
  10. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    *Brennus

    An unusual start to play. Barbs shouldn't be a problem with those spawn-busting Glaciers. Just take care to double-up on Warriors on any frontier hills.

    I count three obvious city spots around your capital. It doesn't look like any of your neighbors stand a chance of claiming these before you, so you will need to decide how many cities to settle east of the isthmus, and when. Wet wheat is a very attractive tile.

    Commerce currently looks like your biggest limiting factor. Clams and fishes will do for the short-term, but coastal tiles for a non-financial leader will only take you so far. With so much food and an obvious need for Sailing/Mining, I would give serious thought to whipping into the GLH.

    If you do go this route, your tech path should probably be Mining ---> Fishing ---> Sailing ---> BW ---> AH. Teching AH will slow any GLH attempt down (I think) but will undoubtedly lead to a stronger position should you miss the wonder.
     
  11. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    If you place units on the path between barbs and your city, they'll think there's no access to the city and go somewhere else... works best with 1-tile chokes.
     
  12. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    For me not so obvious. Southern fish is pickable from exactly one tile, which severely limits options can get few hills on shared food for third city but that's about it.
    Could pick wheat over water but rather likely creative Egyptian b**** will simply settle next to it, so if I want get it would likely need to settle in these nice eastern grasslands, which is not bad thing at all just not round capitol.

    They still attack units once they are next to them, no? Especially barb archers vs warriors on flatland... that 4 warrior line would have 3 guys on flatland so basically any barb next to it is quite a danger of braking through and once path is established...
    I guess 1-tile choke works best cause it has 1-2 land spots for barbarians to wander into attacking position to start with.

    I could see trying walling two tile isthmus, but once again not sure if it is not better just double up on that hill....
     
  13. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

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    Sorry, that was badly phrased. By "obvious" I mean there are three potential sites around your capital that can be easily settled, can share tiles, and can all offer something.

    Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think I would have settled the capital 1E of the current spot. This would let you settle the spot 2SW of the current capital, and have a third city between the lake and Wheat (and I *think* that irrigation can pass through a city located on a tundra tile, once Civil Service comes around).

    No matter. The wet Wheat would be a great tile to secure, but Hatchet's culture will gobble it up if you don't claim it in an inner-ring tile. That probably means that your first (built) Settler will have to go and claim it, if you want it. But that means ~6 turns of travel, the risk of running into barbs along the way, and the possibility that Hatchet will settle it the turn before you get there. :mad:

    Southern Fish city is one I'd definitely settle, even if it causes you to lose a Grassland hill.

    I hope the island across the sea has some greener tiles... :p
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Yes, but they're less tempted to move in that direction once the 'invade culture' threshold is met.

    There's always archery to be safer... probably not worth it with Hatty as neighbor.
     
  15. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    In fact, no. They not less tempted, but obstructed completely.

    Here what happens in barbarian units behaviour:
    Spoiler :

    Code:
    void CvUnitAI::AI_barbAttackMove()
    {
    	PROFILE_FUNC();
    
    	if (AI_guardCity(false, true, 1))
    	{
    		return;
    	}
    
    	if (plot()->isGoody())
    	{
    		if (plot()->plotCount(PUF_isUnitAIType, UNITAI_ATTACK, -1, getOwnerINLINE()) == 1)
    		{
    			getGroup()->pushMission(MISSION_SKIP);
    			return;
    		}
    	}
    
    	if (GC.getGameINLINE().getSorenRandNum(2, "AI Barb") == 0)
    	{
    		if (AI_pillageRange(1))
    		{
    			return;
    		}
    	}
    
    	if (AI_anyAttack(1, 20))
    	{
    		return;
    	}	
    
    	if (GC.getGameINLINE().isOption(GAMEOPTION_RAGING_BARBARIANS))
    	{
    		if (AI_pillageRange(4))
    		{
    			return;
    		}
    
    		if (AI_cityAttack(3, 10))
    		{
    			return;
    		}
    
    		if (area()->getAreaAIType(getTeam()) == AREAAI_OFFENSIVE)
    		{
    			if (AI_targetCity())
    			{
    				return;
    			}
    		}


    The last I present is the one for spawning barbs that start to attack nations because the number of cities vs number of living players (human included) has gone over the third threshold (the two first I think were first human barbs and then barb cities).

    Code:
    if (area()->getAreaAIType(getTeam()) == AREAAI_OFFENSIVE)
    		{
    			if (AI_targetCity())
    			{
    				return;
    			}
    When barb team reaches AREAAI_OFFENSIVE, no matter the good fogbusting, they come after you if they judge your cities weak and juicy (which how valued, I won't enter into details..).

    Then, barb units take AI_targetCity(int iFlags = 0). That flag by default corresponds in CvUnitAI::AI_targetCity(int iFlags) to MOVE_THROUGH_ENEMY=false.
    Which means in that function that barb units from spawning won't force barricades...in fact, they'll "see" any units (I chose my scout to one of those walling unit because it's easy to back off when a barb stumbles by...) just as IMPASSABLE tiles.

    Normal AI's and barbs from random events won't fit to that definition, but who cares!
     
  16. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    I definitely chose no Archery once I saw that map config. Better to maximize chances for GLH. Then it's win with those islands.
     
  17. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    Yeap, settling one more tile East would have been good.

    Up to T26 - 2960BC

    Tech wise i decided to go for AH - can't really believe riverside pigs would slow me down. I mean if both pigs were on hill i would probably would not tech AH, still might mine one of them at some near point.

    Trusty scout did get view of Egyptian border before going back to glacier fogs.
    Good thing there is lots of food and lots of riverside. Bad thing Egyptians are more west than I believed; apparently that yellow dot was corner of second city.

    Spoiler :

    Good thing that wheat/pig/crab thing is not claimed by egyptians yet. [took look over water after Hatsheput settled third city ]
    Red dot has some advantages over pig/wheat city -
    tad closer differential won't kick untill city 3 or 4 but still
    probably would end less streamed by barbs - any settling eastwards of isthmus is pain to defend especially since there is no hill to settle on.
    less needing agriculture which I don't plan tech in near future [so far AH>mining>fishing[ongoing, planned sailing>masonry]
    under some scenario [barb pressure mainly, but also some failures in fogbust line] I can send workboat and keep worker home - would not like doing that since crab is second ring but it is somewhat possible.


    Our side of isthmus
    Spoiler :

    Feck, first non animal barb unit. Guess I would like better if that warrior would not be heading east.

    Settler is 7 turn build now. Worker has plain hill to mine and after is free to either fogbust or make towards another pig tile.

    And we have tundra ponnies. Well at very least, I am sure no one will try to settle on them soon.
     
  18. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    Played to t57 - somewhere in 1720BC

    From scratchy notes...
    t29 Hanibal archer shows up... end decided to explore glaciers where he was alowded to fight barbs till death. Saved me some pain.

    t32 found silver and barb archer... did I mention how brave Hanibal archer acted in this segment, before fertilizing ice with his corpse?

    t33 Setller done, unit maintenance kicks in... damn, that is not going well with the research plans...
    t38 - Stonehenge is built in Sapin, Celtia wisely gets some fail gold to fuel teching through GLH techs and BW.
    t40 - one of fog busters dies in western part of ice, found Vienne on a red spot. Never saw a single barb unit thanks to some patroling war charriots.

    t45 - GWall gets build [not Egypt...phew], masonry is in, lightouse built in capitol.

    t52 - BW done, met Charlemagne, 3 pop whip for settler in cap.
    Spoiler :

    Had like 36 hammers in it, allows these pig tiles to help build GLH. And I need cities for that wonder to do anything.

    t55 - Egyptians learned alpha... Still looks i can trade them in sailing at some point, Hatch does not have fishing yet [might gift Fishing and trade sailing for Agriculture or some writing leftover].

    t56 - Issy builds Oracle, I two pop whip GLH. Well, that saved like two turns, but if i miss it I don't think I have a chance at this map. And well two x pigs means fast regrow. Better I be save here.

    Vienne meanwhile was two times one pop whipped for monument and for workboat. WB will do some exploration and return for crabs.

    t57 our wonder is, however we have situation at east
    Spoiler :

    In hindsight should I have chopped forest 1Ne of cap I could have saved 1 tile movement on settler... Now...
    Well, let me think one south of where settler is I get wet wheat, lake, couple green tiles, tundra hill and cottagable riverrside tundra. And coastal. Sure I take it thanks Hatsheput for not escorting with charriot.


    Some other shots

    Spoiler :

    Tricky one... I think ruins is ex Carthage city whic makes me very interested if there is land bridge between that place and some land west of us. Well, that is why i whipped WB.

    Spoiler :

    silver mine is 2W1N of horses.
    So that is two fish spots potentially available. Gold/horses can be fed via wheat, but I would need to scout around silver in case there is some arctic fish down there.

    Looks lot of brighter now than on like turn two:).
     
  19. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    You have 3 fish spots available. Wheat-fish/ clam-fish west of the cap/ fish north of the cap. I just hope you get a fourth spot near the horses/silver :D Scouting will reveal how good that land is. Where is Hats settler going? Will be following this.
     
  20. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    to 900BC -- well, i reached 5 cities and backfilled on Aesthetics. So far so good.

    Spoiler :


    Lovely island cities
    Spoiler :

    instantly profitable and having even more food in second ring....

    Hanibal is worst enemy of both budist girls so that is likely one of very last deals i've got with him

    Spoiler :


    Tech situation
    Spoiler :

    Out of all people I traded Aesthetics to one who could give Maths easiest. On other hand he is also most likely go for wonders so less likely to trade Aesthetics...

    Iron placing although could be better. As now is me thinks installing some cultural building in Tolosa is way to go.
    Vienne will produce our first GS which... well, Vienne is already pulling equal beakers to capitol so I am rather unsure where to put Academy... Guess my second GP will most likely be merchant, which is not that bad given Egypt built Temple of Artemis [which is why i managed ton get on east side I would guess].

    Next two cities probably will be that lovely spot bellow cap [have workboat closing in] and silver city, leaving third city on that island waiting for a bit.

    I would also very much prefer to get my third worker to chop a bit on that island. Just very unsure where I can get him done.
     

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