From King to Emperor - ouch

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Horizons, May 22, 2019.

  1. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    3,944
    Yes chopping will give you faster victories. If you for example chop out the monument in 3 turns instead of waiting like 15 turns for it to be built you get like +20 Culture which do add up. Generally districts, not pops produce resources like science and Culture so even a small city can contribute alot of science, which mean chopping out the campus and purchasing the buildings and then move on to next city and do the same can speed up the game even if it sound counterintuitive.

    Magnus settler chopping is one way to maximize the advantage of Magnus not lose pop ability while getting out settlers earlier and thus get up new cities quicker who in turn get more production and other resources by being out earlier.
     
  2. newbie2

    newbie2 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    146
    I know how to general go for victories, its my early game/expansion that needs improving. But is it a beter play to prioritize an abundance of settlers (8+ cities before turn 100) than waiting and getting them with the AC?
     
  3. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    3,944
    Getting up more cities early mean getting more population, more production which allow you to get more monuments and that give you Culture for earlier governments and other advantages. This lead to snowballing. If you wait with expansion, you are likely slowing down more or less Everything, especially Culture will be slow if you don't expand and get up monuments.

    The normal build order I use is Scout-Scout-Settler. Warrior scout around capital, not more far than about 10 tiles from the capital. Purpose is to find a spot for second city. Scouts go further to find city states, huts and other civilization while warrior is used to Escort settlers and fighting barbarians. New city build monument first as the Culture is so important, after that it can be used for other stuff like builders or settlers.

    AC feels like it is best if you choose to do an early rush, this way you are spending your production on military units rather than settlers but are still expanding and AC will likely come around the time you are finished with your conquests and allow you to quickly fill out with a bunch of cities.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    Horizons likes this.
  4. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,401
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    One thing you don't often see in Youtube videos is very close starts to enemy AI. I find that you have to spam out warriors and slingers and raze their peripheral cities to buy yourself time to conquer them completely. Sets you back culturally and scientifically to begin with but you catch up once you've conquered their developed cities :)
     
  5. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,244
    Gender:
    Male
    That I'll give you. It's very obvious when people only play on cooked starts when they rely on stuff like "just get religious settlements" or "just have 10 cities peacefully" when there is only space for 3-4. The advice basically just boils down to rolling a map that hands the win to you, so any strat you use on it would work anyways. People say you can always win sub-200 regardless of map but I never see any games on a below average start. :D

    I mean that's fun and all, but it's often bad advice to less experienced players, and tbh are why many players are struggling in the first place.
     
    AlanC9 and Horizons like this.
  6. newbie2

    newbie2 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    146
    yeah, being boxed in something I can't handle well and hope to improve with a faster early game (like getting more settlers out earlier). I'm not very good at the wargame (and I also don't like it very much). Seeing how the AI sometimes places certain districts/cties makes me instantly not wanting to conquer often.

    EDIT: forgot how much space 7 seas gives
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  7. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,401
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    What happened after the latest patch? Disasters more intense, more barbarians (they have catapults now too), and early game AI cheating is absolutely rampant (one AI always has 40 science in the BCs). Getting totally hammered by early game AI aggression, which hinders science and culture - AI absolutely runs away with it now. Not fun any more.
     
  8. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,244
    Gender:
    Male
    No real change to strategy though diplo wins need to be more careful with diplomacy and I guess you shouldn't pollute that much in Apocalypse mode. But it has little to deal with strategy overall. Well, I guess the AI is smarter with beliefs, so religion is much less appealing.
     
  9. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,401
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Seems like every guide to Civ6 focuses on the early game. I was struggling through as Rome (on Emperor), only to find out that Russia was two turns from a culture victory. It was a continents map so there's no way I could have got over there in time to stop them, even if I'd been made aware 50 turns earlier. I give up. How is this game played?
     
  10. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,244
    Gender:
    Male
    Post a t1 save.
     
    MrRadar likes this.
  11. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    272
    Sounds like you are taking too long to win. Something that Civ VI is bad at is showing where you stand versus the other players/AI. We used to have some pretty useful information in Ye Olde Demographics Screen, but now we just have the victory tracker. After getting your base secured (around turn 100), check to see where you stand and where the other Civs are at in the victory conditions. Yes, at higher difficulties you will be behind in the beginning, but that should go away around turn 100-150. If you are playing at Emperor and you aren't close to winning by turn 300, and there's an AI who is close, I'd start getting worried. You have to either massively outpace them or watch them and stop them if they are getting too close to winning. Part of the reason I'm always saying 10 cities by turn 100 is that if you play decently focused after that point, it is very difficult for the AI to catch you.

    Other than that, I always just wonder what it is you are actually doing/building? If you could go into detail about how you are playing, I think that would be helpful.
     
  12. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    240
    Gender:
    Male
    So first, you need to check who is preventing russia from winning a culture vic. You need to increase culture output to defend against culture vic.
    Build theatre squares and builidings over theatre squares. Get cultural alliance with other civilisations. Or even launch moon landing, if that's possible.
     
  13. newbie2

    newbie2 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    146
    It's true that most guides focus on the beginning of the game, which is understandable, as these are the most crucial moments. But becoming more efficient at winning is the second step, after you have laid the groundwork.

    So for a culture win, this means (and I actually have written tis down in a text file to remind myself everytime):
    -trade and organize great works to get the theming bonus
    -interact with every AI opponent and be friendly with them (try to get as many alliances and open borders as possible)
    -plan national parks and seaside resorts in advance - which means you need breathtaking appeal
    - for above, plan ahead for eiffel tower (higher appeal) and Cristo redentor (better seaside resorts).
    -build up your faith generation so you have a substantial pool to make rockbands and naturalists once available

    And this is just general advice for a culture win. This can vary if you for example have a heavy relic strategy with khmer,...
     
    sethryclaus likes this.
  14. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    272
    I was thinking on this, and it might be helpful to discuss how to prevent the AI from winning.

    Domination Victory should be obvious. If the AI can't take your capital, they can't win. If they *can,* you have more immediate problems, and the solution should be fairly clear: build more military units.

    Religious Victory should also be obvious. Generally you shouldn't have to worry about this because there are always at least 2 strong religious Civs in each game, and I've never seen one AI get even close to converting another strong religious AI. Unless you are playing a duel map, you should have zero worries.

    Science Victory is pretty much a race to see who can fill up the Science bucket faster. You should keep an eye on this no matter what, because falling behind in Science will mean you are about to start falling behind in military.

    Culture Victory is different. You have to *pay attention.* Check the Culture Victory tab every 10-20 turns or so. Do you see someone starting to snowball?

    Counteracting a CV is also different. Roughly speaking, Culture is your defense, and Tourism is your offense. If you aren't worried about winning a CV, then you don't need to worry about Tourism. However, if an AI is getting uncomfortably far in the CV department, you need to bump up your Culture so he can't overwhelm you with his rock music and blue jeans. Also, remember they get a percentage buff if you open borders, have the same religion, or have a trade route. So, when Pericles is going gung ho Culture on the other side of the world, what can you do? Build up your Culture (more Wonders, Theatre Squares, and Theater Square buildings - you want to get Great Works, so don't forget Archaeology if you are having a hard time generating GWAMs) and levy some sanctions (close borders and break Trade Routes).
     
    Socrates- likes this.
  15. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,810
    Also, if individuals like Pericles or Peter or someone else snatches all the Great People from under your nose, just go and buy those great works from them. Be sure to get your spies asap and start stealing money. Nothing else, just money. When your spy steals somewhere in the region of 1200-1600 gold per operation (check for highest yield cities beofre sending them), you can buy 3-4 great works for that. And you can pick and choose what to buy to theme your museums. Unless denounced by everybody, never bother stealing great works directly, its random and ineffcient, stealing money is easier and more flexible. So don't get denounced.
     
    knighterrant81 likes this.
  16. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,810
    On the other hand, you can scratch that, being denounced is not so intimidating after all.
    Deal with Harald:
    Spoiler :


    After that he says:
    Spoiler :

    My friend, really:
    Spoiler :



    While with a real friend the same turn it goes like this:
    Spoiler :





    The result:
    Barely ~880 gold spent, and I am 4 books richer, 3 bought from a friend, 1 from a denouncing hostile, without ever recruiting a single writer. My own gold, earned fairly and squarely, mind you. My first spy is just sniffing around in the location of his first assignment.
    Spoiler :
     
    sethryclaus and knighterrant81 like this.
  17. sethryclaus

    sethryclaus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NZ
    There's a UI setting in interface options that will add player stats under their portraits on the top right. This helps a lot when comparing your progress to the AI's - helps give you an idea of how fast you're going. It also tells you who has gold that you can trade off them.

    But yea, there's a bit of reading involved in pushing the difficulties. It's actually quite a hard game, but a lot easier to win on the harder difficulties than, say, XCOM.
    I highly recommend reading the guides to mechanics by users on these forums, they're all really useful. Victoria is a bit of a nexus but there are others as well.

    CV is actually really easy to prevent.

    This. You just buy their great works (you need somewhere to put them in order to do this - i.e. art museums etc) and slot the policy that prevents rock bands from entering your territory. That way they will never dominate your culture and they can't win. I've done this reactively on deity in the late game and it works.
    I've never seen the AI use the Cristo Redentor/Eiffel Tower combo and build enough seaside resorts but they do spam rock bands like crazy which is probably how they're dominating your culture.

    A really important quirk is that the AI will always accept a trade delegation on the first turn you meet them. Likewise, they'll usually trade open borders from the first turn for a small amount of gold. These 2 both give +3 friendliness and will set you up to declare friends, from which point they'll be relatively cheap to trade with.

    Good luck

    Edit: nice one with the persistence too. I think we joined the forums at similar times and I was trying to improve at deity (the next step). I'm really liking just how much depth there is to this game.
     
  18. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,401
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Okay, I'm finding early war impossible to win under most circumstances on Emperor.

    Very early rushes are out: can't out-produce the AI, also have barbarians to get rid of.

    Ancient or classical rushes are out: AI bee-lines to crossbows.

    Medieval or Renaissance out: if focusing on military, the AI will get an unassailable tech and culture lead. By this time the AI has 40 - 70 strength cities and encampments everywhere, meaning you get bombarded to death. AI spam and bonuses allows it to produce enough units to whittle you down regardless of tactics.

    Warfare only becomes viable with artillery and balloons, so you can bombard cities safely. But by that time you are so far behind that you can't win the game anyway.
     
  19. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    3,944
    Military is probably the best way to expand and it is very doable against the ai due to its limitations, even if it have the raw number advantage. Yes in terms of tech and culture, the player will most likely be behind for a while but ai growth in those areas are slow while a player may grow at an exponential rate.
     
  20. montalaar

    montalaar Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Gender:
    Male
    to start winning on emperor on above, player has to change mentality of prince and below level games. no way around this. every move, every chop, every building have to make sense in the context of victory. not to mention wonders.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020

Share This Page