Future of Belarus - Poland and EU or Russia?

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Aargh, he's back, and he's already spamming multiple posts!

Stop the jealousy talk please. Domen is the best and you know it....

 

[Domen]

I started a new thread which is related to our discussion about cities, middle class, etc. from pages 7 - 10:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12863411#post12863411

 

[Tahuti]

But the main question is of standing: Can Poland into Belarus?

 

[Phrossack]

Is it even allowed to spam that many consecutive posts?

 

[Tahuti]

Is it even allowed to spam that many consecutive posts?

Normally not. However, for a topic of such profound weight as the nation of Poland, exceptions are made.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Is it even allowed to spam that many consecutive posts?

No. I have no idea why Domen is permitted such leniency.

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
― Dalai Lama XIV


“Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.”
― Henry David Thoreau

 

[Phrossack]

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
― Dalai Lama XIV


“Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.”
― Henry David Thoreau

So it's totally okay to break the rules, any rules, whenever you feel like it, and you're a "fool" to follow them?

 

[Traitorfish]

A fool to follow them simply because they are the rules, yes. Following them for the sake of good etiquette has more to be said for it.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

So it's totally okay to break the rules, any rules, whenever you feel like it, and you're a "fool" to follow them?

Is that really what the quotes say?

 

[Phrossack]

Is that really what the quotes say?

Hey, if you want to make four posts in a row on Poland, after you make your weekly thread on Poland, and insert Polish references whenever possible in every thread you see, which causes your plan to spread interest in Poland to violently backfire and irritate everyone, then don't be surprised when you get infracted for spam. Because that's exactly what it is, and it's irritating to other users.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Hey, if you want to make four posts in a row on Poland, after you make your weekly thread on Poland, and insert Polish references whenever possible in every thread you see, which causes your plan to spread interest in Poland to violently backfire and irritate everyone, then don't be surprised when you get infracted for spam. Because that's exactly what it is, and it's irritating to other users.

May I suggest that you simply ignore all of the above if it irritates you? This is OT forum not OT(but Poland) forum.

 

[Phrossack]

May I suggest that you simply ignore all of the above if it irritates you? This is OT forum not OT(but Poland) forum.

That doesn't change the fact that it's spam. And I do have him on ignore, but I can still see him make four posts in a row, and I can still see thread after Polish thread pop up here and especially in World History. It's like a mosquito that can bite you through your clothing and isn't bothered by spray or smoke.

And bludgeoning people with an overwhelming amount of posts and threads on Poland is bound to make them irritated with Poland, not interested by it. Even warpus, a Pole, has said as much.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

That doesn't change the fact that it's spam. And I do have him on ignore, but I can still see him make four posts in a row, and I can still see thread after Polish thread pop up here and especially in World History. It's like a mosquito that can bite you through your clothing and isn't bothered by spray or smoke.

And bludgeoning people with an overwhelming amount of posts and threads on Poland is bound to make them irritated with Poland, not interested by it. Even warpus, a Pole, has said as much.

I on the other hand admire his effort. I mean what other poster is going to the lenght of trouble posting in such details? He is enthusiastic and loves his country. Enthusiasm is a great thing and if we all loved our countries as much may be this world wouldnt be in such a mess as it is now...

 

[Tahuti]

I on the other hand admire his effort. I mean what other poster is going to the lenght of trouble posting in such details? He is enthusiastic and loves his country. Enthusiasm is a great thing and if we all loved our countries as much may be this world wouldnt be in such a mess as it is now...

It only really works when such nationalism works internally; i.e. when you use such enthusiasm to improve your country to help your own people. If you work it externally, as Domen does, it tends to annoy people.

 

[Phrossack]

And why stop at your country? Why not notice that there is a world outside of your own little country and care about the people there, too? Just because you were born somewhere doesn't mean that that place is a magical and special land deserving of constant attention and total obsession. That breed of nationalism is narcissistic, and divides humanity into groups and worships one solely because you're a member of that group.

 

[Tahuti]

And why stop at your country? Why not notice that there is a world outside of your own little country and care about the people there, too? Just because you were born somewhere doesn't mean that that place is a magical and special land deserving of constant attention and total obsession. That breed of nationalism is narcissistic, and divides humanity into groups and worships one solely because you're a member of that group.

I don't really think nationalism actually works that way, save for the most extreme forms which obviously do. The main problem is - that especially in the past - that it is already difficult to work for change within the borders of the country/region you live in, let alone beyond it, and is perhaps hard to comprehend as well. A nation is first and foremost a political idea, and not something magical, but is primarily vehicle to carry certain political values, which may be good or bad.
Nationalism is I think intended to emphasise the individuality and values of a nation, which isn't necessarily contrary to aspiring to benefit mankind. The main problem is that it often is vague and almost undefinable ("what are [insert nation here]'s values anyway?") and that it can be used as easily as a force of bad as a force of good. Most self-styled anti-nationalists tend to be human nationalists, who take the nation state to a species level.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

What I was actualy thinking about was something along these lines: If I love my country I wish it well and I want people within it to be happy and prosperous. I am not going to take steps which would profit me personaly and hurted the life of my country in the same time. Healthy, happy and prosperous nation isnt insecure and threats others as friends with good will and spirit of cooperation.

 

[Domen]

That isn't what "middle class" means, or has ever meant.

Ok, but you still did not define what do you understand as "middle class" - especially when talking about the past.

Please define which groups were in your understanding "middle class" in the English & Welsh society as of 1688:

=============================================

Gregory King's estimate of population and wealth, England and Wales, 1688:

http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/king.htm

http://forum.historia.org.pl/topic/7430-szlachta-mieszczanie-chlopi/

Source: Two Tracts by Gregory King, ed. G. E. Barnett (Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins Press, 1936).

* This second category of maritime merchants is what King wrote; versions in which it appears as ‘Merchants and Traders by Land’ are subsequent alterations, though it is possible that this is what King intended.

 

[Traitorfish]

How should I know? Most occupational categories are vertical, they don't give you any particular insight into social class unless it's already built into the category itself ("temporal lords", "labour people", etc). You can't even guesstimate with them until well into the industrial revolution, if even then.

 

[GoodGame]

Would they be like Switzerland---a ton of different languages?