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[GS] Future Update?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Aussie_Lurker, Sep 10, 2019.

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  1. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    There's Military One (Honour / Victor), a Tall One (Tradition / Liang), a Wide One (Liberty / Magnus), a Religion One (Piety / Moshka), a Commerce One (Commerce / Reyna) and a Science One (Rationalism / Pingala), and a City State One (Patronage / Amani). You earn both Promotions and Social Policies through Culture. And the abilities must be purchased via a Tree. And yes, as you point out, the choices are permanent.

    Look a lot like Social Policies to me.
     
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  2. Kaan Boztepe

    Kaan Boztepe Prince

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    a lively discussion about WC. It surely deserves some love in the next patch/exp.
    I like the emergency vote idea that gets after disasters or some city state is annexed. A similar idea could be a warmonger attacked or removed a civ , a resolution to condemn the aggressor and prohibit trade for example or if a civ gets too big to remove amenities that only that civ has. If during war you raid caravans maybe reduce trade route numbers. I am sure we can think of a lot of others to interject to the next vote instead of total random ones. If nothing happens and everyone is turtling in peace the district resolutions can come in . If everyone is at war the +5/-5 to unit classes makes sense. Is there a resolution to ban the use of atomic bombs after the first one is released ?
    I really dont like that you get your votes back if another resolution is selected, risk reward seems off to me.
     
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  3. Jeppetto

    Jeppetto King

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    It's both, plus Government Plaza.

    In Vanilla, Civics are more choice-based version of "The One Culture Milestone" (so instead of exping towards level-up, you choose a path) and Policy Cards were supposed to be more flexible version of Social Policies. But players wanted more permanent choices so they added two things.

    First, Adoption Bonuses were more tied to exclusivity (like Rationalism versus Piety in Vanilla V or Ideological Policies in Vanilla/GK V) and brought back as Government Buildings. When choosing between Tier I buildings you choose to adopt either Tradition or Liberty or Honor. Tier II buildings allow adoption of (War) Patronage, (War) Piety and Espionage. Tier III is mostly just your choice of Victory.

    Secondly, Governors as more managment-requiring expansion on Social Policies. Even the whole "move-around" gameplay has been pushed back by GS into more permanent choice (Liang now can be the Tradition Tree [improvement and district support of large city area plus Housing and Amenity bonuses] or protector of environment vulnerable city; Magnus focuses on creating strong Capital for expansion and industrial juggernaut; Reyna for the crossroads or feature-heavy city etc; Pingala for the Oracle-owning highly-growing Science and Culture Center etc.). You can imagine Promotions having icons instead of text and it's very much Social Policies that are city-tied rather than empire-tied. Instead of having empire focused on religion and science that grows high, you can have one city that grows high, center of expansion, commercial city, scietific and cultural city, religious center city and military center city all at once eventually.
     
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  4. snakeboy

    snakeboy Chieftain

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    I agree, Domination and Diplo should not go together. I also think that using nukes should cost you Diplo points. They could do so much more with diplo and playing peaceful, and considering all the possibilities WC and diplo have, I also am of the opinion that it is extremely poor at the moment. Choices are too convoluted but almost totally meaningless.
     
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  5. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    If it's just a bug-fix patch (which is what I think most likely given the relatively low level of steamdb activity), a fairly quiet Thursday release seems quite possible to me.
     
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  6. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Could there be hidden hints of future content in current content? Take a look at the Era descriptions:

    Nothing to see here. Just setting up the game. However, notice from the very beginning the Era text explicit suggests what the game is about.

    This might not seem much, but consider the rest.

    Here we get access to the first units requiring the two early Strategic Resources, Horses and Iron, and also the earliest techs allowing unit embarkment.

    Again, seems all very straightforward.

    Yes Castles and Knights, it all checks. Next.

    Gunpowder, Musketman, Bombards. All Check. The Printing Press. Check.

    Faiths to be tested. Check.

    National Identities to be formed. DOES NOT CHECK! I find it a weirdly specific thing to mention.

    This also seems to be the first time reference to the Civic Tree is made: Exploration and Reformed Church.

    This is my first suspicion: National Identities/Cultures will be in the game. It fully unlocks as a mechanic with The Enlightenment, which leads right into Nationalism.

    Industrialization, yes. Checks. Reference to early Climate Change mechanics.

    Now, this is crucial: has this sentence ever been altered? Because if not, it's evidence the content of Gathering Storm was revealed long before the release of the game. No? Maybe I'm missing something obvious. I can't find the original era texts.

    And what's that about the delicate balance between peace and war?

    Flight, Communication. Check.

    Choosing an Ideology and something about the threat of conflict on a global scale. Well, we do have ideologies, but no threat of global wars as of yet. It's written in the same straightforward manner as previous Era texts, so I don't think it's just filler. It's literally telling us global conflict will be a thing from here on onwards. But it isn't. Yet?

    Also it's the second time in a row reference to global conflict is made.

    Reference to path to Scientific Victory, Nuclear Fission and what I assume is the threat of nuclear war. It's all in the game.

    Globalization, Social Media.

    What is this about building a global community? Seems a reference to the World Congress, but that's not how it works in Civ 6. Did they alter what they had initially planned, or are they refining the World Congress in the next expansion?
    ---

    So, have the era texts ever changed or not?
     
  7. Cerilis

    Cerilis Stormrider

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    Excellent. We are back to baseless speculation!

    If anything though, the national identity thing would be loyalty pressure. I think they said it was called something like this early on in development too.
     
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  8. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Ok, but then, does that mean the text was never altered and that suggestions of climate change, loyalty and world congress have always been there?

    Because that supports my point of hints already being in the game.
     
  9. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I'm pretty sure the text has never changed.
     
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  10. Askia Muhammad

    Askia Muhammad Chieftain

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    I don't really think its worth speculating whether or not there was much thought put into the WC because in the end it doesn't really matter. What matters is if you find the system useful or enjoyable.

    Personally, I found the Civ VI iteration of the WC to be an enormous downgrade from the Civ V version and I'm not one of those people who still think V is better than VI either.

    I think I can understand why they went with random proposals (for multiplayer sessions to speed things up) but more than half the time in my multiplayer matches no one cares about ANY of the proposals. I think they could have done something more nuanced than the Civ V model but the way the system works now is even less interesting in my opinion.

    Personally, I think there should be a round immediately prior to the actual congress where everyone has the option to make a proposal. The proposals that "stick" will be determined based upon number of people who propose it. This gives people the ability to at least propose things that are relevant for their current plans.

    I.E.

    Proposal Session:

    Khmer propose an embargo on Rome.

    Rome proposes an embargo on Khmer

    Scythia proposes +5 combat strength for light cavalry units

    Brazil proposes -5 combat strength for siege units

    Korea proposes faster construction of science buildings.

    World Congress Meets:

    People can vote to embargo or boost trade with specified civ

    Alter combat strength of specific units

    This is because those two types of proposals received the most interest and thus will be voted upon. If there is a tie the civilization with the highest DF's vote will be voted upon during the actual WC meeting.
     
  11. Askia Muhammad

    Askia Muhammad Chieftain

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    More broadly, I do find the proposals themselves to also be quite boring but i've always felt that civs should be able to refuse trade routes without declaring war as well on a civ by civ basis.
     
  12. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Ok, so we can still have national identities to be formed, which would tie in with loyalty. Conflict on global scale, tying in with Ideology.

    What a coincidence. It just so happens it's the very things I want and need!

    Here's what I think:
    They planned ahead for two expansions and wrote the era texts in advance so that they wouldn't need Sean Bean going over it all over again. Some of these changed somewhat along the way, ending in the game in different forms. At some point they realised that there's enough space and demand for a 3rd expansion. Which means they might go back and revamp the currently weak loyalty and diplomatic systems in a 3rd expansion, to more closely mirror the bolder ideas they had at first, but had later to cut out.

    Loyalty in particular is such a red flag of we were doing something cool but then cut it to the bare minimum.
     
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  13. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    In real UN they have multiple votes because the things they vote on is more complex and can need to be revised in order to be passed. You don't vote on X and get Y, you may vote on X and have it not pass, and then the thing is changed to Y in order to gain broader support, and then you vote on Y and get Y. So your vote is not moved to a different thing, like happens in civ 6.

    Firaxis could have added two voting rounds if they absolutely had to use the two resolutions in one design. They probably thought multiple rounds, even if just two rounds, would be too much hassle for many players, so they added the much inferior way of handling the issue that we now have. If the resolutions were somewhat interesting then two voting rounds would be fine, but when they are more boring than watching paint dry then I sort of understand they didn't want multiple voting rounds, to not bore the players more than necessary.

    Trade embargos, WMD control, condemning a particular religion, border growth control removing suzerain bonuses from a particular type of city state, prohibit deforestation and give a boost to national parks.

    These are the types of resolutions they should have. All the filler, like production to these buildings, or points to this great person, or tourism from this great work, etc. Should not exist.
     
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  14. oakdragon

    oakdragon Stagnating amongst the Siliconians Supporter

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    I might as well add my baseless 2 cents here: Firaxis is busy taking notes from this thread and revising the third XP based on it. That would explain the "delay". If we don't close this thread now, the cycle of revision could snowball and we might never get a third XP. :crazyeye:
     
  15. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    I think denouncement could prevent trade between two civs, or add an option to embargo trade routes with a civ that you have denounced.
     
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  16. Jeppetto

    Jeppetto King

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    Also in code, the nomenclature seems like LOYALTY is per turn and IDENTITY is the "healthbar" of 0 to 100. (I might've mentoined it somewhere already)
     
  17. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    So let's try predicting the release date from the @bite method: when would you be unavailable and/or the release the most inconvenient for you personally? Maybe we can find a cluster.

    I'm out of the country for most of Q1, which would make me unavailable, but frankly the most inconvenient would likely be I can play it but will have too much to do: Either the week I come back from my trip and am playing catchup: the week of March 23rd. Or Tax week (week of April 13th) when I have a trip to prepare for, work deadlines, and frankly am probably doing my taxes last minute.
     
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  18. Jeppetto

    Jeppetto King

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    The most inconvinient release date would probably be year 2050 tbh
     
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  19. sdtum21

    sdtum21 Chieftain

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    I only just restocked the tinfoil at work the other week yet you guys are working through it all at record pace, :cry:
     
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  20. Jkchart

    Jkchart Emperor

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    I know I saw someone post about Embargoes - it would be great if we could individually choose to embargo a player. In my mind that would allow us to:
    • Prevent new traders from establishing trade routes with your cities
    • Disable trading posts in your cities of that player (thereby also reducing their trade range since they can no longer use your cities as a springboard for distant trade)
    • But also does the same for you.
    Why we can't do this is kind of silly. This could also unlock an "economic war" casus belli to force markets to reopen, builds grievances, and can potentially ruin a rival at the edge of the continent by refusing trading access.
     
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