G-Major 117

[Denniz]

[img=right]http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gif[/img]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

[size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
[/size]​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Conquest (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Starting Era: Classical
• Map Size: Large
• Speed: Quick
• Map Type: Pangaea
• Required: Raging Barbarians, No Vassal States, No Tribal Villages
• Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians, No Random Events
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 26th June to 25th July 2013

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[Denniz]

A bunch of Deity level players requested something like this. Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouths are.

 

[Bugio]

Deity, quick, large, raging barbs. Sounds painful

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Deity, quick, large, raging barbs. Sounds painful

Very much so. I might jump in for this one .

Winning it via abuse probably isn't so difficult, but getting a #1 finish might wind up being quite challenging depending on who participates lol.

Edit:

Taking the top spot on the tables for Large/Quick/Conquest on deity will be almost impossible with a classical start. Rusten's time is incredible (actually beating out some submissions on slower speeds and smaller sizes...!). I don't think a winning gauntlet submission will match it.

However, maybe someone will surprise us. It's happened before.

 

[Bugio]

I assume you are talking about PA. It might be easier but not competitive i think, as for being actually competitive in the boards just no. No vassals means much slower conquest. What unit/combo to beat the game? Elephants should do the trick initially but i dont think you can stop research with that. Civ choiche is kinda obvious, india is just too powerful on quick, especially on fast victories like conquest where chopping is so important

 

[TheMeInTeam]

No vassals makes this pretty tricky, especially with PA. Forcing random events angers me enough to possibly not even bother though. Events are generally forced on by default unless disabled, if one wants a truly competitive game. Even so, this is challenging and novel enough to want to consider it anyway.

No vassals conquest on large in general is a big pain. You HAVE to raze spam cities.

Still, I think winning this at all gets a top 3 finish unless I'm mistaken. This is going to be a hard game no matter what you do. If you PA, how do you attain conquest? I can think of only one war method involving PA where conquest is still attainable. Without PA, you're going to have to spam-raze cities after running away. It would take some really high-end play to manage that on large/quick without another AI filling in. Basically you'd get to near-dom range, try to run away before someone gets culture, and then just become a wave of city-burning death. Not easy at all to do with, say, cavalry. Elepult on large/quick isn't going to do much for you...MAYBE a civ (maybe 2 since we're on a later era start).

I think most games that even finish with a win for the player will be later-era finishes.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

This conquest gauntlet will probably be won with units of increasing better technology. The first miltary units built will likely be based on Horse, Copper and Iron. One can trivially start with Horse and/or Copper in the BFC or even ring 3 (t13 for creative leaders and t25 for non-creative leaders). There should be Iron nearby that can be claimed by the 3rd or 4th Settler, assuming one acquires Iron Working early enough.

I wouldn't necessarily assume Indian leaders are the best to use due simply to their fast worker having a 3rd movement point. I expect that other unique units would be better at fighting. Mounted units might have an advantage over foot soldiers, but seige units can't keep up with them.

War Chariots and Vultures come to mind as lethal units that can be built as soon as the corresponding strategic resource is connected and can continue to be effective beyond their base unit's longevity. Chariots are barely worth building; Axemen aren't much better, but they both can take a few cities in sufficient numbers.

Horse Archers may be a good starting unit, especially Keshiks. Swordsmen are also good, the Praetorian is in a class by itself, maceman strong without the melee bonus.

Catapults will be a key supporting unit in all but capturing the very first cities. They are essential for bombarding down city Culture and Walls.

Crossbowmen come next. At quick speed, Machinery isn't that far off, especially when it can be bulbed by a Great Scientist (avoid Fishing) or even a Great Engineer. Cho-Ku-Nu's collateral damage can be fearsome, especially when stacked with enough seige to bombard away culture and walls.

Trebuchets are a key seige unit for taking cities. They come with Engineering which increases road speed of all land units by +50%. Early engineering may be a key component to the best game plan in this gauntlet. If one can avoid Fishing and other bulb killing techs, a Great Scientist with high population bulb Engineering; a Great Engineer can at best bulb 2/3 of it.

Knights are next. Feudalism and Guilds are the techs here. Of course one must have Iron and Horse, unless one can build Camel Archers. Cataphracts are the best mounted unique unit at strength 12 versus 10 (Knight) though they lose immunity from first strikes.

Spies. Love them or hate them. When built in suffient numbers and supported by lots of espionage points, they can support city revolts, destroy walls, steal technologies and other things that directly or indirectly support the war effort. They can be used to support city revolts just before ones Knights/Cataphracts come charging in.

Musketmen?, Musketeers, Oromo Warriors and Janissaries. Musketeers are like mounted units that can fortify. All Musketmen ignore Castles and Walls. The Janissaries have +25% versus Melee, Mounted and Archery units (if I recall correctly). In my opinion, Oromo Warriors are awesome; they start with Drill I & II and just 5 XPs gets one a Drill IV unit when built. They are deadly against all other musketman unit and anything earlier; they can even stand against when further combat line promoted and they get promotions very fast.

Grenadiers have a +50% attack bonus versus Riflemen, but are only 12 versus 14 strength, but they are great on offense versus Riflemen.

Cuirrassiers are probably going to be the earliest final unit in this game. You might as well use first to Liberalism via bulbs to acquire Military Tradition. They can cordinate with spies to take cities fast or hamper them with seige units.

Riflemen, what's not to like about them? If they are your goal unit, may as well get Red Coats and really ravage your enemies.

Canons are the ultimate seige unit of this gauntlet. You definitely want to win before you think about Artillery. I'm fairly sure that Canons and Steel will be the best needed seige unit and technology that unlocks it. Many enemy units will become fodder for your Canons.

Thusly, ends my preliminary guide for this gauntlet. Many topics have been left untouched for future comment. Please join the dialog.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[TheMeInTeam]

AIs run away quickly though and there's a lot of ground to cover on huge.

I thought of a way I'm pretty sure I can win easily (as long as I use AGG AI to stave off unwanted AI culture), but I'm not sure how realistic it would be as a winning submission. Still, anyone opening the victory save will be amused .

 

[Denniz]

This gauntlet is only on Large. I figured Huge would be too much.

 

[kovacsflo]

A bunch of Deity level players requested something like this. Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouths are.

Oh, a fine 90 QM score major for immortal rush... Still, I am not sure I will play as I have already reached the top.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I've been working quite hard on this gauntlet. Is anyone else committed to submitting at least one game for this gauntlet?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've been working quite hard on this gauntlet. Is anyone else committed to submitting at least one game for this gauntlet?

Sun Tzu Wu

I bought a new monitor but since installing it all of my WINE games crash when I start them. I've done a clean reinstall of Linux Mint 13 so if I can get civ IV working again (reasonably likely) I'll be submitting a game.

I won't work hard on it however . I have an idea or two on how to utterly cheese the game and get a victory within the constraints, but I don't think I can beat a dedicated micro wizard with a firm understanding of the game's mechanics like you also have .

A successful run with these settings would likely take me 1-2 hours of in-game time (closer to 3 in reality).

 

[Seraiel]

Someone plz help me with the settings I have to use for this, as I'm in need of a Deity Gauntlet.

What I'm thinking of is Pangaea High Sealvl Temperate Climate Tororidal worldwrap, am I right? Anythinig else?

I'm thinking about playing Russia for this btw, as I still need them as a faction for EQM and am a huge fan of Cavs in latest times.

Ser

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Someone plz help me with the settings I have to use for this, as I'm in need of a Deity Gauntlet.

What I'm thinking of is Pangaea High Sealvl Temperate Climate Tororidal worldwrap, am I right? Anythinig else?

I'm thinking about playing Russia for this btw, as I still need them as a faction for EQM and am a huge fan of Cavs in latest times.

Ser

Solid coastline will ocassional provide a smaller land mass with toroidal wrap. Other coastline types will not.

For a Russian leader, I strongly suggest Catherine for her Creative and Imperialistic traits. Creative will help pop borders quickly and provide extra cultural pressure without the need to build any culture generating buildings; also providrs cheap Libraries to run a couple scientists while running Slavery. Imperialistic will help spam cities for the land grab and provide more Great Generals.

Unique unit based on Cavalry should help a bit in the end.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I bought a new monitor but since installing it all of my WINE games crash when I start them. I've done a clean reinstall of Linux Mint 13 so if I can get civ IV working again (reasonably likely) I'll be submitting a game.

I won't work hard on it however . I have an idea or two on how to utterly cheese the game and get a victory within the constraints, but I don't think I can beat a dedicated micro wizard with a firm understanding of the game's mechanics like you also have .

A successful run with these settings would likely take me 1-2 hours of in-game time (closer to 3 in reality).

That's great. You will work at it the easy way and at least submit a win. I'll work on it hard and may have something go wrong with each attempt. I need to develop some better strategies.

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Seraiel]

2 Questions:

Classical starts and legit for League of Nations, right?

If so, which would be the best leader for this gauntlet in your opinion, and why?

Tia 4 your answers.

Sera

[EDIT]

Atm. I'm thinking that Quick Speed means that a Horse-UU is a Must. This leaves the Mongols (Keshiks, which I hate, but Kublai is CRE and Genghis IMP which will help especially with these settings) , Byzantine (though the Cataphract isn't that great either, IMP + SPI are the best traits for these settings imo) , Spain (SPI + awesome Conquistadors) , and at last Russia (awesome Traits, decent UU) .

Other things I think of, are, that one could try with Boreal mapscript and use Montezuma (Woodsman 2 Swords from Barracks) or the French (2-Move draftable Muskets) .

Interested in your own thoughts and / or your thoughts to this.

 

[Seraiel]

Wanna keep the discussion up.

The first 2 that proove to have been here (tell from experience if you have, say what you think, comment on thoughts so that the discussion goes further, aso) get a list of perfectly chosen opponents from me.

Atm. I'm playing with Isa and it looks like this reward won't be up too long, as quick games are so extremely fast, that I may submit more than 1 during this week (holidays! yer! ) .

S.

 

[Bugio]

I think you value UU way too much, traits and/or fast workers will help you a lot more. Catafracts are awesome but waiting for knights i don't think it's competitive.

 

[Seraiel]

I hate to say this, but CIV is imo mostly about unique units, especially if the Victory Condition shall be Conquest (or Domination) .

War Chariots / Immortals are (almost like) Horse-Archers that cost only half and are available from the start, instead of 1k-1.5ky later. Ok, the Ballista-Elephant isn't that great, I admit, but that's because the normal War-Elephants are already imbalanced, the cheaper (and again earlier available) Praets even more, and the Quechua brakes the whole game.

I think, it's about deciding when one can make a breakthrough and push straight towards Victory.

What leader would you advise / choose? Say why or whatever you think .

Sera

P.S.: Fast Workers aren't such a big deal in this game, as one will capture tons of workers. That's one argument I had aganist Isabella. Starting with an Archer and easily accessable Horse-Archers (by assuring that horses are in the BFC) make building workers absolutely superflous.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Pangaea map is required for this gauntlet, so Boreal can not be used.

Classical Era start only counts in Rock of Ages for EQM. I believe that QM allows all Eras, but I'm not sure (didn't see anything the overall tab or formula tab about it).

I believe that Horse Archers might be effective in capturing a few cities. I do expect that the game will end with Knights to Cavalry. Foot soldiers are an option too, but need roads and Engineering to get the front fast enough to not become obsolete in transit. I would also not be surprised if the game ended with Canons.

War Chariots can be built starting in t2 or t4, when settling next to horse with the worker building the pasture in 3t and in the absence of a river to the capital building a road in 2t. There is also the option of settling on Horse and building War Chariots starting t0, but a horse pasture is great hammer plot to work, so I'd advise against this option.

I have tried Praetorians with the idea of spamming cities early while either researching Mathematics to trade for Iron Working or research Iron Working -> Mathematics, but I haven't been able to keep research high enough to continue much beyond Construction and Metal Casting before AIs get to Feudalism or Machinery.

Sun Tzu Wu