Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Denniz, Mar 26, 2014.
Great point. Huts on lower levels are sick (free workers/settlers)
1150 AD. Man I love pounding on weak AI. Someone should break 1000AD.
Alphabet 1000 BC, Currency came too late in 125 BC. Once I got economy up and running I was good.
I chopped 6-7 forests into the UN with a GE and it still took me 8 turns to build it.
Got terrible starts the first two times. One had terrible food, the next had terrible production. Kublai ruined the second one by DoWing me.
I was starting to think the beat up on AI and liberate their cities back would be quicker than peaceful bulb strategy. I am looking at a 1250-1350 AD finish with peaceful bulbing. I hope I'll have a chance to try the other way.
Abandoning another run. This time because Joseph Conrad's Birth was just too depressing after already birthing Vincent van Gogh and Michelangelo.
Joseph Conrad made Saladin of Arabia Commit Suicide.
This is a very ambiguous and misleading statement. While technically true, it has no real value. Sure, one could beat most high level #1 games without tribal villages, but it will be usually much easier to do so with tribal villages. Even without getting any technologies from huts, a substantial amount of wealth can be collected from huts that allows a much longer stretch of 100% research early in the game where it can be a critical factor.
The quote above is also just another way of saying any well played game without Tribal Villages can beat a less well played game with Tribal Villages.
Still not convinced? Try tribal villages with a classical era start and keep repeating until one gets Horseback Riding from an early hut.
However, as pointed out by others, this gauntlet requires "No Tribal Villages". Thus for this gauntlet, the point is mute. This begs the question of why it was relevant to bring up the topic of tribal villages in this thread at all. For educational purposes beyond the gauntlet no doubt (a hut can provide astronomy on a terra map).
Sun Tzu Wu
OK - I admit I'm stuck. I don't understand how to get tech from physics to Mass Media so darn quickly.
For example, I'm looking this game:
and I look at the saves and the log. And I don't understand how this happens:
208 520 AD You have discovered Scientific Method!
210 550 AD You have discovered Drama!
Victor Hugo (Great Artist) has been born in Delhi (Shulec)!
211 565 AD Charles Darwin (Great Scientist) has been born in Delhi (Shulec)!
You have discovered Physics!
215 625 AD Nabu-rimanni (Great Scientist) has been born in Berlin (Shulec)!
217 655 AD Shulec adopts Organized Religion!
Hatshepsut converts to Confucianism!
Mansa Musa adopts Organized Religion!
You have discovered Guilds!
The villagers have provided you with a Warrior!
You have discovered Engineering!
You have discovered Electricity!
In 9 turns Shulec, got Scientific Method, then Physics, then electricity.
I can get a BC Education. But I just don't understand these late surges in tech up the Mass Media Tree.
Turn 187 (205 AD) Education.
206 / 490 AD Scientific Method
209 / 535 AD Phyisics (3 turns!)
210 / 550 AD Electricity (1 Turn)
212 / 580 AD Radio (2 turns . . . but from liberalism so I can kinda see that)
215 / 625 AD Mass Media. 3 turns.
LIke . . . WTF?
What am I missing?
Great scientist bulbing perhaps?
Yep, and a couple Artist bulbs too.
I mean I kind of see it for the tachywaxon game because he has that crazy economy even at 450 AD of 1100 beakers per turn and 2 GS saved up. (interestingly in that game 26 workers, 0 built)
But even so . ..
Electricity is 8538 Beakers.
Physics is 7590
Mass Media is 6831
A GS bulb only gets you what? 2400?
And then shulac? Even on the end save he's only got 494 BpT.
I mean I guess I'm just frustrated that I'm not even within shouting distance of a 625 AD Mass Media. I'm like at least 40 turns away from that even if everything rolls the way I want it too.
That overcrowded Axe (vulture) rush with 0 workers built though. . .
Here is my best guest! (I remember the map, but not the game!)
1. Representation with max Scientists (this could be confirmed by looking at GPP in each city)
2. Bulbing NOTE!!! Artist bulbs suck compared to beaker output from Great Scientists. But if you have no other use for you GA, you might as well bulb toward Mass Media.
3. Golden Age
4. Free Religion I checked... I was in Pacifism.
Check out Tachywaxon's game here.
Note, Tachywaxon has adopted the name Manco Capac.
She is in the HoF of the Hof. (It doesn't really exist...but, hats off!)
Super helpful! Thank shulec!
Well, Vultures >> Axemen but there will be fewer archers defending on Monarch than immortal. So . .. can an Axe rush mimic what was done there?
Also, since the AI doesn't start with a worker, you sometimes have a warrior waiting by AI Corn from turn 20-35 twiddling his thumbs. Is a warrior opening viable for worker theft on Monarch? If you do open warrior . .. do you go hammer out a warrior with a forested plains hill and get a 2nd warrior by turn 4 before you grow or do you work the floodplain / unimproved corn and have the warrior pop on turn 11 with the 2 pop?
It looks like you gave this a few shots back in 2011 in that same thread but were plagued by hatred of the other AIs on the continent. That would be an even bigger problem on Terra.
You could crowd the map . . . 10 AIs highsea level: 3 from bad faction 3 from neutral 4 good wimps.
That Tachywaxon game is sick, though. 19 vultures . . . and the mids . . . and CS slingshot Civil Service and 20 someodd stolen workets with 0 built.
This time, I'm trying a Civil Service slingshot. With a Great Merchant, avoiding Bronze Working. Forgot that Currency and Mining were above CS, Mining only took three turns though. Oracled CoL.
155BC Civil Service, not too bad. Completely forgot about peaceweight when picking AIs, Mansa and Gandhi might have to be destroyed.
You can get CS around 1500BC, if try out the following:
- hit ALT+G (re-roll) until you get a start with at least 1 gold or gems tile in your capital's BFC, better 2
- bee-line Alpha
- build library after settler in capital
- trade writing and pottery/AH for all ancient era techs you need
- tech maths and start chopping the Oracle
- don't forget to expand to at least 3 cities, better more
- finish Oracle the turn you get CoL, grab CS
I usually go worker first on monarch, but it helps to steal more workers from your neighbors.
Well, given that I'm normally a Prince player, might not be so easy...
True, but it's not all that hard either. You should try it. I bet you can get CS much closer to 1000BC, if you follow that recipe. Early CS doesn't really require much skill, just a good start. What does take skill is to leverage it.
I'll swap Gandhi with Toku, who should be a convenient scapegoat. So should Mansa, being the only AI with a "Good" peaceweight.
Toku is probably a poor choice unless you want to make it more difficult. His Longbowmen are 2nd only to Sitting Bull's and all his units are generally powerful.
DeGaul, Kublai Khan, and Catherine are much easier choices for villains.
After a TON of map regeneration, I got gold+corn+river+horse. Found some MORE gold to my east, and after micromanagement because a volcano destroyed my gold mine, I slingshotted Civil Service. Stonehenge went at 2400BC, which is an almost DEITY time! I had a tech lead by 10 AD, loads ahead of everyone but Qin, who I was up on by CS and CoL to Calendar (halfway through) and Currency. Isabella decided to DoW me after I refused a demand for HBR (and she has no horses!)
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