1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

G-Major 134

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by shulec, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,377
    Location:
    No longer Chicago :(
    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

    [size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
    [/size]​


    Settings:
    • Victory Condition: Conquest (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Deity
    • Starting Era: Ancient
    • Map Size: Large
    • Speed: Marathon
    • Map Type: Highlands
    • Civ: Celt
    • Opponents: Any
    • Version: 2.13.004, 2.13.004s, 3.19.003 or 3.19.003s
    • Date: 25th November to 25th January 2014
    Must not play as Inca.
    The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Just wanted to give this info away:

    Seas creates more water, so there's less territory to conquer. This is the easy choice setting.

    Mountain Patterns to dense peaks creates more mountains, so again less land to conquer. Choose this too.

    The difficulty comes with having to choose "scattered" , "clustered" or "ridgelines" . Scattered makes the different points of the map easily reachable, because there are no mountain chains like with ridgelines or clustered, that produce chokepoints. Of course, chokepoints are an advantage as one can block land, but everything reachable fast can also save various turns when moving, and the map is large.
    Difference between ridgelines and clustered mainly is, that with ridgelines, there are more chokepoints, because the same number of mountains isn't so close together then with clustered. This will probably lead to ridgelines having the advantage when trying to block land, while clustered maps will give the better cities because the land itself is either mountain or land.

    But don't forget, that the greatest choice of all is your leader. Brennus has the stronger traits for any normal game, but this is a Conquest game, and Boudica is often regarded as even stronger then Brennus, because she i. e. has the possibility to create Command units with only 2 settled GG. This game could very well go up to Nukes, and Nukes + Commando units are the biggest ownage I have ever experienced.

    Of course, another difficult choice is how many opponents you'll take on the map, with more opponents creating weaker AIs, which is as well advantage as it's disadvantage, because better techs can also mean easier warfare, and less opponents also means less opponents to conquer.
    Basically, you have to choose between a "fast-tech" setup and a "slow-tech" setup, so either choose fast-tech and conquer the map with Nukes + any unit of your choice, or go slow-tech, maximum opponents and no Mansa Musa, and enjoy every unit for hundreds to thousands of years.

    I post this, because this also impacts your choice of your leader, fast-tech is better possible with Brennus while slow-tech harmonizes with Boudica.

    I hope, all those choices won't break your head :)

    Have fun and participate :) .

    Seraiel
     
  3. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Additional information:

    Brennus and Boudica are both Charismatic, so they get +1 :) from Monuments. This could make Stonehenge good play, as happy-caps on highlands are usually low. Large numbers of cities all getting borderpops for free also denies Brennus one of his advantages, which is switching to Caste for easy borderpops.

    The GW could be interesting for Boudica, as she gets less tech-trades, and when Stonehenge is already good play, you might wanna get yourself a start with Stone and get that Wonder too, not to forget the Mids, which are strong in any situation.
    It might actually be the case, that this strange "SSE" kind of economy which I've never found to be strong, at least not stronger than special options and bulbing strategies could be interesting in this setup.

    Of course, Mids are no need, because Highlands usually has enough rivers and at least the hills will make it very easy to run a Hammer economy, the economy that usually prooves to be the strongest in Conquest games anyhow.

    ---------

    Regarding units again, don't forget the Celts Unique Building, "The Dun" , which gives free Guerrilla 1 promotion to units built in that city. I've not tested it, but I think that only counts for units that could usually recieve the promotion, so 1 move units, not Elephants, Horse-Archers or Cavs.

    Combined with the highlands map, which has tons of hills, this opens up some very interesting options, like "build an army of Guerrilla units" . Those units will be almost like Commando units but a lot earlier, and with Guerrilla III, they get 50% withdrawl chance! Imagine that, you could attack a city at 0% odds and 50% of your units would survive!
    Withdrawl is usually for mounted units because they come without siege, now imagine a Guerrilla-army that flies over the map, and and has no need for Siege!

    ---------

    I'm sitting over an hour already at these choices. Even with this Gauntlet lasting 2 months, not many games can be played because of the length of one game.

    I'm somewhat currently leaning towards trying something like Boudica + Stonehenge + Mids and then constant Police State + Vassalage + Slavery and later switch to Nationhood + Theocracy, slow-tech-setup and wipe out the map with an army of Guerrilla III. Guerrilla I comes from Duns, they're cheap anyhow because you'll have Stone, then Guerrilla II from Barracks, which are again cheaper, and Guerrilla III from Vassalage / Theocracy.
    Don't forget, that those units will also all have Combat 1, so they'll be stronger than normal units anyhow. A Celtic Swordsman has a STR of 7.2 when attacking cities, that's close to a War Elephant, and now imagine that Gallic Warrior with 50% withdrawl chance, double movement on Hills and invulnarability against counter-attacks when standing on a hill due to 50% defense bonus!

    ---------

    Tell me what you choose and how it's going, but don't forget to tell if you play with or without Vassal States.

    That's always the hardest choice that I have to make. Generally I hate Vassal States, but I'm sure that Conquest games can be won more easily or quicker with them.

    Vassaling all AIs that remain in the end is only a choice, if you vassaled all others before that also, because otherwise, you'll surpass Domination limits and the Domquest coin gets thrown, and of course, nobody wants to lose a game in which he / she maybe has invested 100h+ of playtime!

    ---------

    I'll make some promotion for this Gauntlet in the Strategy and Tactics subforum, more competition always means more fun, and this one has so many opportunities, that usually anyone that can beat Deity should be interested in playing it.

    Sera
     
  4. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Played a short round to get comfortable with the settings I chose, which are 14 AIs, no Mansa Musa, mix of bad and good peaceweight AIs. Chose Brennus as my leader and got a start with which I should have been more careful, trippel riverside Ivory, riverside Gold, Plains Hill Settler, Corn and Pigs :eek: . Even without Stone and with going Worker first, I got Stonehenge (very late) at 2650 BC. Of course, initial expansion suffered from this. Still, the city being powerful produced 2 Settlers very fast, but then the Mids got built completely out of reach and Oracle went 1900 BC with me no chance of building it with having gone Aesthetics as tradegood.

    Not sure if I will continue that game, played very sloppy and didn't even improve the food in the 2nd city because I gambled on a double Workersteal after having gotten Archery early. Game probably wouldn't be bad, but definately not exceptional.

    Still waiting for responses in this thread :) .
     
  5. Bjarkov

    Bjarkov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    On a map with low happy cap, SPI temples can matter a lot. I guess that pushes Brennus over the top for me.
    Can't wait to lib riflling and draft Gue III riflemen to rule the hills :)

    Quick question: If I vassal my last opponent and the combined lands put me over the dom limit, will the game count as domination or conquest?
     
  6. Bjarkov

    Bjarkov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    dang, that game went from 'very promising' to 'drop' with the building of Mids
     
  7. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    1. Don't forget that Rifling obsolets the Dun, so to draft Guerrilla III Rifles, you'd need Barracks + Theocracy + Vassalage + Westpoint + 3 GGs.

    A better way to get those Rifles would be to draft Muskets and upgrade them, which is actually a very good idea.

    Btw.: Do Guerilla III units really get +25% Hills Attack? Would be so op on this map.

    2. If you vassal your last opponent and get over the dom-limit, a coin is thrown, so it's 50% for Domination and 50% for Conquest. In short games, one can gamble on that coin, but in this game, one will definately make sure to conquer and raze the last opponents completely.

    [EDIT]

    P.S.: The advantage when drafting clearly has Boudica, because she can draft 2 XP Rifles with just Barracks + Theocracy, and as they got Combat 1, their first promotion is the 2nd, so Cover a.s.o.
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Dafuq. Stone seems to be even more rare than Gold. In 3h of map-generation I have gotten 2 Gold + Stone starts, and both were Seafood ones that didn't even have a river for a Buro Capital.

    If only more terrain would be shown at the start, but with everything being forrested, one basically has to manually create the starts to first move the scout and then reveal the terrain with the Settler, so Mapfinder won't be as big of a help as it's normally is.

    Hoping this will not scare of too many players.
     
  9. Pepnponcho00

    Pepnponcho00 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Last time I had this happening the game went down as domination so I guess it wouldnt count.
     
  10. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    I think it's a coin flip. You could win conquest, but don't gamble.
     
  11. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Throw a couple easy peace-vassals in there. Cathy and Louis come to mind based on the last SGotM.
     
  12. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    currently just planning to give advice.
     
  14. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Odd.
    Help shows Guerilla I is not available to Melee, but II and III are listed as available if you look at the promo and not available if you look at a unit.
    So is the Dun the only way to get, for example, an Axe those promos? Or am I missing something?
     
  15. Pollina

    Pollina Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,785
    Haven't played Celts in a long time, but I seem to recall that only archery and gunpowder units (and maybe scouts) can get Guerilla I from Dun. Guerilla axes aren't possible, unless you're using worldbuilder or mods.
     
  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California

    ok, thx, so swords can't get it either, but can the UU get GII and GIII?
     
  17. Pollina

    Pollina Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,785
    They can be promoted GII and GIII. They would be pretty useless, if they couldn't.

    (Unless you're asking if they get a free promotion from Dun. They don't.)
     
  18. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    20,529
    Gallics (Celt Swords) can get GII and III, it is what makes them special. Dun only applies to archery and gunpowder units. So as Serial says, get those GWs working early or draft Muskets before Rifling in cities with Duns.
     
  19. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Took up the round which I paused due to sloppy play, the one with the awesome start where the Mids got build extremely far away.

    Was able to produce 10 Gallic Warriors with Theocracy before I got Civil Service. They can be upgraded to Guerilla III Maces. Normal Maces cannot get Guerrilla, so I thought I'd mention it.

    Guerilla III units with just 4 XP are nice btw.
     
  20. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Sofia
    Thanks for the insights, Sera!
    BTW, pity you didn't take part in the latest SGotM. I do think you're one of the best.
    I'll give this one a try, although I doubt I'll even come close to a win (I've been unsuccessfully trying to win a Deity with Asoka for an year already, I guess). What's your take on getting random AIs?
     

Share This Page