1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[BTS] G-Major 173 - Aztecs, Warlord, Cultural - Deadline October 27th 2020

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Noble Zarkon, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    Worth repeating:
     
  2. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,679
    22 workers 500BC, 29 workers 10AD (19 cities). You need a lot of them to get everything done while also chopping into failgold. I built most of my workers myself. That's another benefit with more cities. The amount of temples/missionaries needed does not increase with amount of cities, so more production means more workers.
     
  3. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,570
    Thanks, that's a good deal more than I had, and have then. Just closed down the game now after playing, and it's honestly so frustrating to feel things slipping away from where they should be :sad: It's now roughly 200AD, I have 22 workers. Were building some more, but had to drop everything I was doing and build Wealth in non-leggies, apart from chops into a wonder now and then. Still out of money, and have to drop down to 80-90% culture every few turns. Also means I'm neglecting the last temples I need, and also should have had more missionaries (but can't build them now out of OR). Not even running as many artists as I really ought to, because more cities are working mines. Such a chaotic mess.

    Thinking about simply turning off the slider for a while to collect gold. Gotta say that I'm wondering about my general approach here, with going full 100% :culture: right at Drama. Ideally it's what should be done, but when I'm running out of gold anyway? It lasted some 12-15 turns, and then it's back to looking under every pillow, and selling Philo for 30g and the like. I'm putting chops into Paya and Taj, but there probably isn't all that much into them, and ofc I need to actually complete them somewhere too, since the AIs are all cavemen.

    Ultimately it has been really hard for me to keep going full tilt. Gold is the answer to everything, but I simply can't keep up with workers. Feels like everybody are chopping right now, plus a few building mines, so I'm probably short on farms too. It is seriously impressive that you managed to put everything together in the one game you played :bowdown: I'm here on my fourth, and things are still unravelling :lol:

    I did some comparing around 100AD, and seems like I'm falling behind the 990AD game now, at least when it comes to temples and cathedrals, which is sort of all that matters at that stage. Have more cottages and more of them are villages and towns, but when I can't keep up with multipliers, I'll fall behind (or further behind).

    Can't believe I didn't notice this when settling the city, but I managed to place this legendary essentially without hammers. Maybe there was a forest 1E, and I didn't know about the copper at the time, but should still have placed it 1E. Suppose I wanted more rivers or all the dyes, but it was a mistake. And due to support cities left and right, third ring forests don't go to the city either (and south is jungle).
    Spoiler :
    This is a while ago, but I can't be bothered to fire up the game again just to take a new picture.

    Almost no hammers. One lousy hill, one plains cottage plus the plains spice. A clear mistake. If I had thousands of gold I could buy cathedrals, but as it is, it's been real painful to get them up.

    Leggy 2.jpg
     
  4. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,626
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gibraltar
    Ouch I mean that's a lovely GP Farm but even without the copper it needed those 2 hills!
     
  5. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,570
    Yep, that city 1 east would have been much stronger overall. How the heck could I miss the hammer aspect :crazyeye: The city has actually gotten out 4 cathedrals now, but that's due to a recent rough whip because I simply had to take a 7-ish turns window in slavery+OR to get out more missionaries (also whipped some more workers). Oddly enough, the capital only has 2 cathedrals, although the third is out next turn. It's due to the awkward spread north/south of the jungle belt, and lack of temples.

    Did a comparison with the games around 400AD. Seems like I have indeed fallen behind now, which is disappointing given the strong start. Some aspects are better, especially the cottage count, but culture is sort of important in culture games I guess :D
    Code:
    990AD game (430AD)
    ---------------------
    16 cities
    5 religions, 44 temples, 8 monasteries, 11 cathedrals (2 more almost done)
    57 religions in cities (0 empty)
    123 beakers (100% culture), 0 into PPress
    2453 global culture
    Leg cities size:    15, 16, 13
    Leg cities culture: 22516, 14355, 12380
    Leg cities output:  814, 500, 385
    135 pop
    0 cottages, 4 hamlets, 12 villages, 5 towns
    22 workers
    1802 scoreboard points
    
    
    Current game (400AD)
    ---------------------
    18 cities (1 island)
    6 religions, 37 temples, 6 monasteries, 10 cathedrals (1 more almost done)
    58 religions in cities (0 empty)
    57 beakers (100% culture), 4 turns to Machinery
    2304 global culture
    Leg cities size:    17, 12, 18
    Leg cities culture: 18928, 10648, 15188
    Leg cities output:  616, 454, 448
    144 pop
    1 cottage, 0 hamlets, 21 villages, 9 towns
    28 workers
    1853 scoreboard points
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  6. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,679
    Yes, hammers extremely important in legendary cities. All of mine were capable of 20+ base hammers from worked tiles, although it took a while to grow them to that point since two of them were low on food. AP added another 6 or 8 on top of that. My ideal legendary city would have 2-3 food, 5-6 hills and the rest riverside grassland with a few FPs. Even better if it's mostly forested at start.
     
  7. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    Finished a test run. I went the shorter route to Nationalism and passively teched to Liberalism circa 950 AD. That is
    I went full culture much earlier. Finish time was 1190 AD which is almost exactly the time compared to the prior run where a massive amount of cash was wasted getting to Liberalism early. I bought cathedrals instead. 1 less in total too. My thinking was that the Queen Bee, the capitol, really only needed the free speech boost. In this test game that meant the Hermitage much sooner. Of course, nothing good came from the free Liberalism tech. Also, banking/economics was never reached. Looks like the usual methods waste too much fail gold for no good reason.

    This doesn't come as much surprise. The famous Wonder Bread game had one big thing going for it: tech trading. That is a huge multiplier. Yes, cash comes in at a good clip but the buying power drops considerably. This in addition to a huge deficit. Tech trading is a needed payoff. Secondarily, there is no strike motif possible in a culture game as that drops the culture slider to zero. Deficit can't be stacked upon deficit.
     
  8. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,570
    Managed to improve the date.
    Spoiler :
    G-Major 173-970AD Culture Win.jpg

    Only a few turns, but still nice given I dropped behind the other game due to slow cathedral building, and the hammer-less leggy 2. Actually got the free Great Artist event again, which ultimately saved a few turns, and made up for getting a 17% Great Prophet. Kept him around for a long while, in case we got another accident and could spend them on a GAge, and shortly before the end he created a shrine.

    More food on this map, which was really nice compared with Cowistan earlier. Thick jungle belt, and turned out I didn't have enough workers to get everything done in time. Willem actually spread Christianity to one of my cities (Sparta), and I spread it a little. Capital therefore ended up with 6 cathedrals, while the others had 5. Got 13 GAs (including the two free from event + Music), and cities were bombed 2 - 6 - 5. Had to get Engineering right at the death so the GA that spawned from harshly starving down the NE city in the SE corner could get back to Teot in time for a 970AD win. Also used a million workers to build a diagonal road through the jungle to make it happen.

    Didn't feel like a great game, too many small and big mistakes, but am glad I still managed to improve the previous date by two turns. Have played more culture games in the last month than the previous 10 years :crazyeye:
     
  9. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,679
    Congrats! An improvement is still an improvement. :)
     
    Pangaea likes this.
  10. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,570
    Thanks (the game has been accepted now). It was a bit messy at times, and as the posts show, I was rather frustrated. But somehow we pulled things together and got out enough GAs to get over the line. Think I starved down the NE city about 6-7 pops to make it happen. Am definitely done with this gauntlet now. Hope it's enough for a second place, but you never know with 10 days left, and @iggymnrr probably taking aim at both my and your date. Sounded like @Tonny wanted to play too, but he didn't reply.

    The war against Pericles was awfully messy, and maybe it was a mistake. But Athens was really quite a nice city (triple clams), so I wanted it. Basically lost the army twice on taking him out, but it worked, by a hair. Jaguars suck, though, they really do.

    With the game over, I got view of the other continent in the post game screen. It looked really strange, with three small continents with islands in the middle. Weird that the hemispheres are sometimes cut up in pieces like that, when I went with "Massive continents".

    Obviously you still got an incredible date, but I feel like Philosophical would have really helped out here. May have resulted in about 3 more GAs, which would have cut many turns off the dates.
     
  11. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    @Pangaea That was a good finish time. I'll keep trying to beat it and the elitetroops date.
     
  12. Tonny

    Tonny King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    708
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I'm trying to get a game going here, but each time I end up with the wrong AI when I have some hut luck. On the other hand when I have the right AI my hut luck is terrible with only maps, scouts and gold.
    Meanwhile I have the challenge going (#5) on marathon speed. Loads of food in that game, but almost no hills and a massive amount of rainforests.
    I'll give another try again with max opponents and massive hemispheres on low sealevel. Doubt I will finish in time.

    edit:
    I think I might have a game that could go all the way...
    situation on turn 18:
    - cap started on worker and just finished (settled on ph)
    - hut luck: map, scout, 75g, mining, masonry, 118g, settler
    - surroundings cap: dry corn (easy to get wet due to fp), wet wheat (next to lake), ivory riverside, 4 fps, 13 forests, silk riverside forested, 7 riverside graslands all forested, 2 riverside plains forested, 2 plains hills (1 riverside)
    - can get a helper city with it's own 2 fps and own stone while sharing corn, 3fps, ivory and riverside grassland. Helper city has 5 forests of it's own.
    - another helper possible with it's own fp... need more scouting to see possibility.
    - justi founded buddhism with marble, corn, pig, fp, 6 tiles riverside for cottages and 15 forests in bfc. Also room there for 2 helper cities. Nice legendary city spot. only 9 tiles away.
    - found mansa's borders with pig and lots of forests and rivers. Also nice possible legendary city. Still need to see other side. also only 9 tiles away.
    - NE farm spot available with corn, pig and 3 fps. Already room for 8 artists at size 13. Can get more with 5 grassland farms and maybe biology. 4 forests to chop NE there.
    - teched agri and doing bw now.
    - rivers around for early connections.
    - mids look secure.
    - able to get loads of failgold on stonehenge and walls due to stone.

    This will be a tight fit on all things that needs to be done.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  13. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,570
    Is low sea level to try to grab as many huts as possible? I (and elite I think) went with high sea level to bunch the AIs up a bit more so it was easier to conquer them.

    There are times it's nice to get a scout from a hut, if it's early. May be able to grab a lot more of them. However, in one failed attempt I got FOUR scouts, which was totally pointless (causes maintenance too). On the fourth I simply quit the game instantly. Enough already! :lol:
     
  14. Tonny

    Tonny King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    708
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Yep, low sealevel for more huts and more opportunities for good cities. Resources get spread out more. I believe that having many 'ok' farms is better than a few 'top' farms. Once the 'ok' farms have produced their artist, they'll switch to merchants to fuel my economy. This has worked for me in the past to keep the slider at 100% culture.
    Imo no need to pack all those AI, only 1 or 2 good capitals are enough to capture.
     
  15. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    I have one candidate game to play out. I finally got a hut split involving settler/worker. It took a few tries after getting 3 setters once, 3 scouts once and 3 workers once. Needless to say I experimented with ways to play out the workerless settler starts. It could be useful at some point.

    Anyways a 2-warrior rush got a city/worker combo at turn 31. There followed a 4-warrior rush and then a 3-warrior rush of a coastal Mehmed. Clockwise conquest. There's a lot of gold on the map. Another rush with the surviving warriors may be possible too. But the capitol seems a bit weak and a 3rd city also looks a touch weak. Looking for another candidate game to save.

    One test also showed that a 3 vs 2 warrior matchup is not hopeless if the 1st 2 do enough damage so that the 1 vs 2 can't help but win. I've been building a quick, cheap barracks ASAP. (The reason for a hut worker.)
     
  16. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    I just saw that weird AI behavior in practice. Some warriors moved in to attack a city and an AI warrior moved out and kept going like I wasn't there. Set to explore probably. What exactly determines this?
     
  17. Tonny

    Tonny King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    708
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I now got screwed by RNG :cry:
    3 C1 warriors vs 1 with 20% culture defense and 25% fortify bonus... and lost all three of them! Last one at 98%!!!
    There was a wandering warrior I did not care about, because normally I would have killed Isabella totally before it could reach me. It took one of my cities...

    I'm not playing this gauntlet anymore, because I can not finish in time anyhow.
    Focusing on my challenge #5 game now

    Well played guys!
     
  18. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,570
    Sorry to hear that. The early failed game I had going ended like that too. Think I had 6 or 7 warriors against two, and one had just went back into the city, so no fortification. Everybody died, and 1-2 of my guys were promoted from a previous capture.

    Have moved on as well now, so if anybody beat my dates, I won't be able to claw back. Am currently playing BOTM 200, and will probably try 202 after that. The other space game I had for the other gauntlet will need to be completed later I think, as it's only a few days left of that deadline now.
     
  19. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    I had a 5 settler start on the wrong hemisphere. The game is a marginal candidate now. There is plenty of food but Stalin had axe by turn 55 so that delayed things and still might. Also Pericles learned the arts of RNG so that war still rages And rages. No peace treaty in sight. Might need Zeus.

    I still have the other candidate game that is a bit food poor. I also might find a 3rd one by the weekend. The hut ATM has been favorable lately.
     
  20. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,170
    Submitted a 1090 AD game. 10 cities. Only captured 2 cities. AI got the Oracle in 1650 BC too. Had the economics GP been relevant about 6 turns might have been saved. Late to CoL, CS, Liberalism and full culture. Feels like full culture can come sooner. This might be another way of saying Economics can also come much sooner. 10-12 cities should be able to do the trick. All religious wonders, AP/SM/UoS, got built which made things very tolerable. Not sure I can get a new game done but a previous candidate might be doable to finish.
     

Share This Page