G-Major 82

[Denniz]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

[size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
[/size]​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Large
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Normal
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 1.74.004, 2.13.004 or 3.19.003
• Date: 25th August to 25th September 2010

Must not play as Inca.

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[cabert]

an empty table!
with some luck (meaning someone actually manages it) there'll be one less next update (or the one after that)

 

[Lexad]

I say Praetorians.

 

[babybluepants]

I may try this with Peter.

Edit: or Liz.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Here's an article that should help put everything into its proper Perspective:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/strat_tactics_logistics.php

Here's an article that may help one decide which Empire and Leader to Play:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/uniqueunit.php

Caveat: This article is not as "Comprehensive" as the title states. For example, this article doesn't even mention Gilgamesh's Vultures, which should definitely be given some consideration for use in this Gauntlet.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Lexad]

STW, do you estimate Vultures will fare better than Prats on Normal Large?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

STW, do you estimate Vultures will fare better than Prats on Normal Large?

No, Praetorians will last longer. Also, Praetorians do not have an effective counter; An Axeman with equal promotions will still be slightly weaker than a Praetorian in a Plot with no Defensive bonus. Vultures, being unique Axeman are vulnerable to Chariots, but a couple Spearmen in the stack is usually sufficient for stack defense.

However, there is at least some doubt that Praetorians and Catapults alone will be able to dominate any Large Map at Normal speed. I was able to Win a 300 BC Domination on a Pangaea Tiny Map with 4 Opponents with just Praetorians, but I'm sure that Catapults would be required to go further once remaining Opponents get Feudalism or Engineering and especially after they start trading these Technologies. I suspect that at least Trebuchets may be needed to capture Cities with Castles, especially Hill Cities.

Quite honestly I'm not sure Praetorians are best option for this Gauntlet, but they are what I will try next.

I tried Vultures, but wasn't able to build 8 of them before all Opponents had Copper and Axemen. Immediately after declaring War on Elizabeth, Roosevelt and Frederick declared War on me. Roosevelt probably did so to steal one of my Workers. Frederick didn't even share a Border with me and had only Scouts nearby which I quickly dispatched. I captured Elizabeth's Iron City, but a few turns later she counter-attacked with several Axemen and Swordsmen versus my 4 remaining CR Vultures, who didn't really stand a chance.

I tried Cataphracts, but I was quickly surrounded by my Opponents and quit after all the good sites for nearby Cities disappeared.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[cabert]

I would go for cataphracts too, if I tried

 

[babybluepants]

If you guys can dominate a large deity map with Vultures or Praets This seems more like a pretty regular Cuirassier > Cavalry game to me. I'd aim for something like sub-500 AD Military Tradition.

I'm trying one with Peter right now. Got an excellent start tech-wise, but it's a touch low on land (only 8 cities, with 2-3 of them marginal infill). See how it goes...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

If you guys can dominate a large deity map with Vultures or Praets This seems more like a pretty regular Cuirassier > Cavalry game to me. I'd aim for something like sub-500 AD Military Tradition.

I'm trying one with Peter right now. Got an excellent start tech-wise, but it's a touch low on land (only 8 cities, with 2-3 of them marginal infill). See how it goes...

Certainly, if you are able to maintain Technology parity or pull ahead of the AIs, Cossacks is all you may need, if you can do it before the AIs get to Rifling.

No one will dominate a Normal speed, Large Map with just Vultures or Praetorians. Catapults are a must and a lot of them. Or Trebuchets.

Also, Keshiks look very appealing as well.

War Elephants to protect the Catapult stacks from any foolish AI mounted unit and any other unit, except a Spearman or Pikeman.

Caveat: I'm not at all sure that Praetorians and Catapults/Trebuchets will Suffice.

However, I do prefer an early rush for an early Win.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[cabert]

I tried it with a permanent alliance.
Got all the way to 20 % land. not quite enough, asoka (not me!) won a diplo in 1460 AD

 

[babybluepants]

I'm still playing my original attempt with Peter. Haven't had much time for it...

Not used to Large. It's quite a step up. I teched furiously early on, but the AIs are way faster than I expected. Got MT in 350 AD and Rifling in 860 AD. One AI has lost its 7-8 core cities around 1000 AD, and capped. That's where I'm at right now. Cossacks alone should take care of two more AI, but it looks like I'll need a mountain of siege a bit later to go after Washington, who's grown quite large and keeps spamming troops.

Anyone else trying?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'm still playing my original attempt with Peter. Haven't had much time for it...

Not used to Large. It's quite a step up. I teched furiously early on, but the AIs are way faster than I expected. Got MT in 350 AD and Rifling in 860 AD. One AI has lost its 7-8 core cities around 1000 AD, and capped. That's where I'm at right now. Cossacks alone should take care of two more AI, but it looks like I'll need a mountain of siege a bit later to go after Washington, who's grown quite large and keeps spamming troops.

Are you planning to use Artillery or Canons?

Might be easier to just beeline to Fission, complete The Manhattan Project, beeline to Rocketry and build Tactical Nukes. Two Tactical Nuke hits on an enemy stack will almost always wipe out all units. When the enemy stack is in a City, a Paratrooper can land and take the City in the same turn (or just use Cavalry just outside the blast range). Otherwise, sufficient Cavalry will take a City easily after a single Tactical Nuke, though you may need numerous Cavalry or the Blitz promotion to kill all surviving units. Of course, Gunships or Armor can do mop up too. One must offset the Tactical Nuke aim to allow mounted units or Armor to Blitz without being subjected to the blast.

Anyone else trying?

I've started four Games so far:

1 Gilgamesh, Vulture Game, abandoned
1 Justinian I, Cataphract Game, marginal start
2 Julius, Praetorian Game, marginal starts
2 Julius, Praetorian Game, good starts

In my current Game, I'm at turn 110 (125 BC), and finally got the War Machine cranking out mainly Catapults and a few replacement Praetorians. I'm less than 10 from completing Engineering and will start building Trebuchets; beating down Longbowmen with Catapults can be expensive. I'm keeping my Economy from collapsing via good Technology trades where the AI usually provides only Wealth. I believe that building Cottages from the start may be the best way to a healthy Economy.

My first victim was Pacal II. I was quite surprised when five AIs followed my lead in attacking Pacal II. In all my previous Games, 2-3 AIs would attack me immediately after my first attack.

I believe I've been delaying my first attack too long. However, it seems more beneficial to spam Settlers (initial Cities) than spam Praetorians. Games where I've delayed attacking until I've built a few Catapults are going much better than when I proceeded without Catapults; Enemy culture grows too fast at Normal speed, especially compared to Marathon speed.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[babybluepants]

I was hoping to do it during the Steel/Rifling window, but it's a bit too early to tell. 50 cannons will do wonders, but my issue in this game is lack of overall production. I should really look for a start with room for 11-12 cities early.

In my game, all AIs warred at least once in the BCs. I avoided it all by staying away from close borders until quite late. It must be quite normal to see massive dogpiles like that on large pangaea. Poor Sury was at war with 6 of them at one point.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I'm gonna give this one a shot. It's very similiar to G-Major 75 and I really liked that one.

The only option I have in mind right now is no barbs

 

[ArenaMan]

Caveat: This article is not as "Comprehensive" as the title states. For example, this article doesn't even mention Gilgamesh's Vultures, which should definitely be given some consideration for use in this Gauntlet.

Sun Tzu Wu

Nor does it include the Portuguese Carrack.

I am going to take Joao sailing on Archipelago/Snaky/Toroidal. I am beginning to think this victory condition, domination, could more accurately be called 'land grab'.

With snaky continents I am hoping to 'discover' bigger islands with no AI. In this vein, I'll limit my rivals to 8. This brings the % land area required to 60%, up from 51% with 14 opponents, but I am hoping to grab free land.

Toroidal puts iceberg islands at the 'poles', where their would normally be untouchable land. This anti-quator will be the key to victory, as I have found no Amundsen or Scott among the AI's.

I do imagine Settlers drowning when Lisbon goes broke and Carracks get disbanded beneath them out on the high seas.

We'll see.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Nor does it include the Portuguese Carrack.

I am going to take Joao sailing on Archipelago/Snaky/Toroidal. I am beginning to think this victory condition, domination, could more accurately be called 'land grab'.

With snaky continents I am hoping to 'discover' bigger islands with no AI. In this vein, I'll limit my rivals to 8. This brings the % land area required to 60%, up from 51% with 14 opponents, but I am hoping to grab free land.

Toroidal puts iceberg islands at the 'poles', where their would normally be untouchable land. This anti-quator will be the key to victory, as I have found no Amundsen or Scott among the AI's.

I do imagine Settlers drowning when Lisbon goes broke and Carracks get disbanded beneath them out on the high seas.

We'll see.

I like your strategy above. I agree that playing the minimum number of Opponents (8) is a worthwhile gambit; as you say, it only increases the Land Domination threshold from 51% to 60%. Once you hit 50%, it won't take long before you hit 60%, assuming you have a viable Military that continues to capture Cities.

A similar idea would be to use Terra with Joao II. Beeline Optics, build and upgrade to Carracks and Settler spam the New World! You should only need a relatively small chunk of the Old World to get Land Domination depending on how much Land is in the New World.

Good luck, ArenaMan!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[ArenaMan]

A similar idea would be to use Terra with Joao II. Beeline Optics, build and upgrade to Carracks and Settler spam the New World! You should only need a relatively small chunk of the Old World to get Land Domination depending on how much Land is in the New World.

Thanks Sun Tzu Wu for the alternative, I might have to try it.

My first attempt was abandoned in 1230 AD when Roosevelt sailed up to my lonely shores in a frigate. I hadn't even reached Optics to build Carracks. And, I was beelining it.

(183 turns, 1230 AD, slider at 0% 17 gold income, 8.9% land area, leaders land area (Frederick) 10.1%)

I blame my resource-starved starting island (of course I do). It was sizable enough, 8 cities, but not happy or rich enough.

I did easily stockpile 26 settlers, all sittin' around playin' cards waitin' for the fleet to be built.

Also, a weird thing, to me at least, happened. Eventually, I could see Elizabeth's borders over the horizon, so we made contact. Then, several other leaders stopped by to say hello with no visible sign of their borders or vessels in my waters. I can only assume Liz introduced them to me.

Anyways...I'll run it again.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I did easily stockpile 26 settlers, all sittin' around playin' cards waitin' for the fleet to be built.

Delay building the Settlers as long as possible. Most of those Settlers probably cost you 1 Wpt while sitting around doing nothing. 20+ Wpt doesn't seem like much, but it adds up to a lot after scores of turns.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shulec]

I have given up on this one. The best I can do is rush and neighbor, at which all neighbors have iron or copper. Then after that, all neighbors have Longbows. I don't have the skill (and time or patience) to win this with several rushes (Praet rush, treb/canon/rifle rush, artillery/tank war, nuke war).

I know there are plenty of you who can easily (but tediously) win this one. Good luck! Perhaps I am wrong, but the early discussion in this thread of a domination with trebs/preats is nonsense. Prove me wrong!