G-Major 93

[AgedOne]

At the risk of over-posting ...

I have tried a few starts just now, and cannot see how I would reach a situation where I had a moderate stack of Vultures (say 5) by turn 55!

I have settled on riverside plains hills, with corn and gold in my BFC. Settling on turn 0.

The tech path is Mining (11 turns), followed by Bronze Working.

I have started with a worker build, as I am going to need one.
(Stealing one is an option, but I would have to make that decision right at the start and build a warrior instead - allowing my city to grow. It's a gamble, but it might be the only way)

Since my city hasn't grown by the time Mining comes up, the BronzeWorking research time says 25 turns. Of course, this will come in a bit as my city grows, but not much. Mostly I have got to Bronze Working around turn 33 - 34.

Now, I haven't found Copper in my borders yet, but let's assume I did. Best possible scenario is that I accidentally built right on top of the copper! Now I can build my Vultures and have got 20 turns to churn out 5 of them. Yes. That would work.

In the real world, I am more likely to find that it needs to be mined and hooked up by road. This is going to take 10 turns and now I've got to produce my 5 Vultures in 10 turns.

I'd just like to know what actually happened in some of you experienced warmongers' games. Must I rely on a lucky break (popping a required tech, settling on the copper) or can this be done through sheer hard work and skill?

 

[AgedOne]

Hi Agey! I'll answer you a tad later today. ..

Actually, your rush should go well ...

My apologies, guys. I cross-posted with both of you and it may look as though I was asking for advice that had already been given. Not my intention, I assure you!

 

[shulec]

I have had several attempts with this one too. I have gotten some early rushes out, but have found that in most cases, my first captured capitol/ 2nd city usually suck. By this I mean lacking high food tiles, commerce tiles, and quarry resources. They ususally do have a lot of forests which are obviously good.

I am undecided as to whether worker or warrior first is best. I have tried to replicate Tachywaxons start, but I have found that I am too slow taking down the 3rd and 4th civs. I also found that I got a lot of hate for declaring on everyone's friends. This led to three or four civ wars when I attacked.

I think the anwser to your question as to how to get the Vultures out early is a combo of chopping and whipping. Chop first, then whip to the the last 1-2 vultures out. The more workers you have, the faster the chopping will go. You also need a few high food tiles to get your populations up quickly so you can work several mined hills right away. Pre-chopping can be done while hooking up to copper. If you have any "spare" worker turns, build roads where there are no rivers. If you get lucky, copper may pop up on a riverside tile.

@ Tachywaxon. Awesome game. It looked really good on paper before playing this game. It looks much better after having played it out. Great job on creating/taking advantage of good fortune, e.g., Oracling CS.

 

[AgedOne]

I have had a small taste of success at this early rush thing.
It's not enough to win me the game, and in fact I probably need to start over.
What it has done, is show me how some of the ideas you guys have been feeding me can work in practice.

I gambled that I would be able to steal a worker, and so built a warrior first - allowing my city to grow faster earlier. The worker steal was simply done, plus it was nearby and early enough that he was mining my gold probably a few turns earlier than if he had been home-grown.

I then gambled that copper would not be in my borders, and built a settler (which would obviously have been a waste if it turned out that I did have copper). Chopped it out as soon as BW arrived.
The copper was outside my border, but close, so fairly quick to settle on top of it and get hooked up to my cap.

Even so, there was no way I could get my Vultures ready to attack before turn 80 as I had hoped. No way at all!
I declared on Asoka at turn 89, feeling that this was too late, his culture defences were at 40%.
But things went for me! I defeated 4 archers, losing only 1 vulture, and took Delhi.

This was where I got a feel for how things improve - just as you've been saying. My promoted vultures cut through the next city so much more easily, and Asoka was gone.

Isabella next. Not the greatest choice as her culture was growing also - but she was close by and weaker than me militarily. Took her down, but things got very sticky taking Madrid. I lost 4 vultures getting in, and for the first time I was meeting spears and axes. This was at turn 114 (1150BC).

I have saved away only a few turns after that.
Taking stock, I now see that everyone else is going to be much tougher.
Just as shulec noted, the remaining AI are getting annoyed at my warfaring ways.

I should add that this is a strange map roll. The vast majority of the AI are on the same continent as me - leaving only 3 still unknown overseas.

One big strategic note. Can I assume that in the warmonger strategy somebody else normally builds the UN, and you are the rival due to your population size? I hope so, because I am still back in the stone age at 1000BC! I imagine that it would be about 2000AD before I could get up to Mass Media myself .

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Vulture Rush:

I have had a small taste of success at this early rush thing.
It's not enough to win me the game, and in fact I probably need to start over.
What it has done, is show me how some of the ideas you guys have been feeding me can work in practice.

Yes, to really understand an early rush, you need to do it yourself.

I gambled that I would be able to steal a worker, and so built a warrior first - allowing my city to grow faster earlier. The worker steal was simply done, plus it was nearby and early enough that he was mining my gold probably a few turns earlier than if he had been home-grown.

Yes, a worker steal is almost a requirement for a #1 game, but not really required for an adequate early rush. You are gambling that the AI Leader you steal a worker from either has a higher priority than retaliation or retaliates after you are ready for him, such as killing his stack of doom on plot with no defensive terrain.

You may even want to spam Warriors for multiple Worker steals from the same AI Leader or even two or more Leaders. You can't set a AI Civ back more than steal all its Workers on the DoW turn.

I then gambled that copper would not be in my borders, and built a settler (which would obviously have been a waste if it turned out that I did have copper). Chopped it out as soon as BW arrived.
The copper was outside my border, but close, so fairly quick to settle on top of it and get hooked up to my cap.

This is usually best to have a Settler ready to move out when Bronze Working is completed.

Even so, there was no way I could get my Vultures ready to attack before turn 80 as I had hoped. No way at all!
I declared on Asoka at turn 89, feeling that this was too late, his culture defences were at 40%.
But things went for me! I defeated 4 archers, losing only 1 vulture, and took Delhi.

You're had one successful early rush. With practice and reflection on past successes and failures, you will improve and optimize your early rush. You should be able to get 5-6 Vultures completed by turn 60 at least; they should be able to take down a Def 20 city easily with 2-4 defenders (4 is a bit risky though).

As you noted, Vultures can be quite effective against Archers even in cities with cultural defense 40. Hopefully, you will have some CR2 units before challenging a city with def 40.

This was where I got a feel for how things improve - just as you've been saying. My promoted vultures cut through the next city so much more easily, and Asoka was gone.

Isabella next. Not the greatest choice as her culture was growing also - but she was close by and weaker than me militarily. Took her down, but things got very sticky taking Madrid. I lost 4 vultures getting in, and for the first time I was meeting spears and axes. This was at turn 114 (1150BC).

Depending on the actual situation, this could be the result of less than optimal tactics or just bad RNG outcomes. I suspect it was the latter, but you may want to review your tactics to see whether alternative tactics may have provided a better result.

I have saved away only a few turns after that.
Taking stock, I now see that everyone else is going to be much tougher.
Just as shulec noted, the remaining AI are getting annoyed at my warfaring ways.

I suggest that you put this game on hold. Start a new one to see whether you can improve on your early rush.

I should add that this is a strange map roll. The vast majority of the AI are on the same continent as me - leaving only 3 still unknown overseas.

This would be OK if you can see a way to dominate the rest on your continent before the AI Leaders on other Continent discover Optics and find you before you have completed your dominance of your continent.

Diplomatic Victory:

One big strategic note. Can I assume that in the warmonger strategy somebody else normally builds the UN, and you are the rival due to your population size? I hope so, because I am still back in the stone age at 1000BC! I imagine that it would be about 2000AD before I could get up to Mass Media myself .

That is a possible route to a Diplomatic Victory, but it will be rather late unless an AI Leader on the other continent is really focused on a Diplomatic Victory and builds The United Nations quite early. In this case, your your dominance of your own continent and sufficient Technologies to maximize Population somewhat, you should have no problem qualifying as the competitor to the TUN owner. You just need to butter up at least one AI Leader on the other continent, make your own population doesn't exceed 60% of the world population. You can give a city to each AI Leader you need fair trade relations (+4 Diplomacy) with; so having Technologies to give away isn't needed. Trading a bunch of resources is another way to get 1-2 Diplomacy and you may have some monopoly control of some resources, so it quite a viable way to gain Diplomacy points; 25 resource turns per point Diplomacy to an maximum of 2 points; note that 2 resources for 13 turns should be enough for +1 diplomacy and 2 resources for 25 turns enough for +2 Diplomacy, so with enough resources, one can speed up this bonus' effect Open Borders can gain one +1 Diplomacy for 25 turns and +2 Diplomacy for 50 turns (though the DV resolution will hopefully come up before 50 turns).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Manco Capac]

Before beginning some write-up, which is only there for backing up my theories, I'll keep my tips the most pragmatic.

Firstly, I recommend warrior first and more to reinforce. I'm no expert at all generally speaking in Civ4, but regarding worker stealing, I did that multiple times on marathon in the past, thus I can predict worker movements as well for settlers (but that's another story). Yes, this is Epic speed, so worker stealing is a tad more difficult and prudence is required.

Normally, a worker takes 24 turns to train, making a long wait without growth, exploration and impact on the world. If we opt for warrior multiple train instead, we are free to stunt expansion of others ,easing future conquers. In addition, one discovers earlier the risk of attacking such civilization before another one with the intel of strategic resources. Nonetheless, choking must be done intelligently. Choking within BFC without being necessary gives the AI a reason to produce more garrison.

Here are the tips:

Begin with warriors and steal workers as much as possible. Do not begin with a worker, it is not necessary, we are all playing a HoF game, not a XOTM (or Succession game).

On immortal, extorting a cease fire is given in most cases. Abuse cease fire because the AI is enough stupid to work again the same tile multiple times. Not much of a tip because if people are talking lots of minus diplo points, they're hinting me they are already abusing of cease fire.

It is possible to see after the second or the third stolen worker, the AI beginning a settler, so be careful. Blue circles are a indication of where they will settle, if ever you have settler.
Don't fear to fortify on the tile they will settle on because the AI just avoid enemy tiles and go back. Then, just fortify on settling tile if they're approaching it and move to and fro to an adjacent tile to freeze the AI into a sisyphean circle. On the other hand, if you want that badly that city location, just let the AI settle that city at the opportune moment.

Don't forget to max the numbers of opponents.
Furthermore, choose wisely your foes. I really wonder which leaders you have chosen, Agey. Perhaps, some are completely wrong and impedes your path to victory. My choice is sometimes impertinent too. Wang Kon was chosen because he produces 20 % gold and Churchill because he has a good WTYABTA of fifteen techs. De Gaulle because he's just a bad early warmonger...and I always put him as a baddie. Worker stealing him is just too easy with him.

On a side note, of course, woodman II warrior can be use, but that requires amount of luck and wasting hammers because of bad luck can be irking. If ever that occurs, cease fire becomes useless and abuse of forest patterns in a way you're capturing workers from two tiles away. Settler capture are viable tactic with woodsman II warriors.

If ever some tips are crying for further detail, I fain would explain more. I'm not like Obsolete with his deity-info-leaking-restrictive-elitist habits. Flame me!, I won't respond.

Still, warfare is depending much on luck (BFC resources disposition for worker stealing, BFC quality of captured cities, generous RNG outcomes bringing soldiers to survive longer and more experienced, etc.)
An early rush that went well ... doesn't mean the player is extraordinary.

Just to bring back Misotu words.

[...]does it make it perfect? Or laudable? Or amazing?

Even I was quite surprise of the success of the rush.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very succinct Write-up.


3900 BC (Turn 4):

Of course, I could've been luckier been on a PH and working a forested PH, but four gold tiles plus a riverside corn isn't often seen. I moved my initial warrior southward along the coast to avoid jungle as it can be uninhabited.

Spoiler :

3700 BC (Turn 12):
I waited Isabella for working that gold tile. Unfortunately, as usual, she ignored the BW tech path later.

Spoiler :

3600 BC (Turn 16):
The last turn, I stole Gandhi's worker. I am moving my warrior onto that rivery tile to be protected from archer retaliations. Then I can move the worker onto that flood plain tile.

Spoiler :

3500 BC (Turn 20):
Wang Kon is working on a gem tile. I stole the worker. I stole many workers from him...repetitively. I got lucky by killing a lion at ~33% (explaining the early woodmans II promo)...but later that warrior got killed at ~33 by another lion...without using the said warrior effectively.

Spoiler :

3400 BC (Turn 24):

Churchill is another one who provided me a bunch of workers.

Spoiler :

3000 BC (Turn 40):
My stats say I have five workers without training a single one. I build a barrack before training vultures. Copper hooked on that turn.

Spoiler :

2600 BC (Turn 56):

My first city capture with four vultures and a warrior along for moping. The most risky move, but it was the nearest city. I have nine workers by the time.

Spoiler :

2425 BC (Turn 63):
A good road network can do marvels. That is why I march fast towards one civ after one. That is why worker stealing like beast is powerful at the expense of some diplo points in some cases. See the quantity of high commerce tiles. That is one powerful gift from RNG Gods. It lessens the arrival of new cities. I decided to go after Gandhi because he was more dangerous than Isabella without Mining yet. To be honest, I captured her capital much later. I was worried that the others might expand too much.

Spoiler :

Later, I DoWed De Gaulle at the east of Delhi because two workers were working on the copper tile. I marched towards the east to discover it was his only copper tile. His capital was nice with another commerce tile (gem).

Another army was marching towards Wang Kon's capital. I let him settle his second city for more workers. That said army, then, was marching towards Churchill.

Meanwhile, the other stack wiping out De Gaulle was returning towards Delhi for the final smash into Kmer territory with the fusion of both stacks (the other stack has finished to grab main Churchill's cities).

Here's a summary of my marches. A bit a mess I know.

Spoiler :

Hope your next early rush will turn out to be a perfect one, Agey!
Don't forget, a good worker steal can impede an AI so much its conquer later is a piece of cake!

 

[Manco Capac]

@ Tachywaxon. Awesome game. It looked really good on paper before playing this game. It looks much better after having played it out. Great job on creating/taking advantage of good fortune, e.g., Oracling CS.

Thank you! Oracling CS was necessary step to pass through strike without specialists.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ STW

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

@ STW

Just trying to help AgedOne find the path to a viable Vulture rush.

Awesome early Vulture rush walk through, Tachywaxon! I can retire now.

Great job worker stealing! Plus putting stolen Workers to good use. It's really nice that Gilamesh starts with The Wheel, so when your worker ran out of Farms, Mines and Forests to work on, they can built highways to warmonger nirvana.

I also like your idea of sending out 4 Vultures to the first city to attack. Adding the Warrior is good in case the battles go badly and one badly damaged Archer remains. The backup Warrior can take him out. I'd add a second Warrior to the stack.

Also, upgrading Warriors to Vultures is another way to help quickly build up a Vulture stack. It is expensive, but Research can be set to 00% after Bronze Working and its viable to upgrade 1-2 Warriors to Vultures when Vultures are in really short supply. Of course there are better things to do with one's commerce.

I was tempted to play this gauntlet. I really like Gilgamesh and his Vultures for domination games and taking over one's home continent can be thought of as a mini-domination. The Civs in the other continent(s) will not be effected by one's early rushes and war-like behavior, so one can be the perfect warrior-diplomat for a very early win like you did, Tachywaxon. I fully expect that you will win this gauntlet, even after detailing your early rush. I sincerely applaud your sharing in this manner; others have done so in gauntlets before, but not quite as fully as you have done so now and in the past!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Manco Capac]

We always clear the queue before closing a gauntlet.

Clear the queue in the sense of "too bad for you" or "checking every single game"?
I guess it is the second, but I want to be sure.

 

[Ozbenno]

Clear the queue in the sense of "too bad for you" or "checking every single game"?
I guess it is the second, but I want to be sure.

We accept/reject all the games that have been submitted (gauntlet or otherwise) before doing the update and closing the gauntlets.

 

[AgedOne]

@Tachy & @STW
Thank you both for the excellent large, elaborate and helpful posts in response to my pleas for help!

I will only have a chance to read them properly after work today - so about 12 hours from now.
But a quick Thank You to both of you up front.

 

[AgedOne]

@Tachy & @STW
I have now finished reading both of your posts. Thank you both. A great deal of food for thought.

I won't attempt to discuss all of the points you have both raised. It would simply take too long and produce a monster post. Also, I would begin to feel that I was taking over a discussion thread for a game that I have yet to submit an entry towards! Such bad manners

Just a couple of snippets:

To raise an army of vultures by turn 55 looks like I will need to follow the worker-capture strategy. (My mouth is still open, I am so stunned at how brazenly you carried this out, Tachy!)

I do consider my AI opponents very carefully, normally. I have a spreadsheet that I prepared myself from examining the XML files, which I refer to. However, this is hampered by a couple of things. First, my own irrational and random thinking! Second, the attributes that I have never incorporated into the spreadsheet.

On this occasion, I seem to have forgotten to re-draw the list of AI, and continued with the list that I thought were suitable for a peaceful victory. Bad move!

Also, the attributes I have never incorporated include just the kind of things you mentioned about Churchill and Wang, Tachy. Bad omission!

Now I need to start putting some of this into practice. Maybe not tonight, unfortunately, but before the deadline. Please!

 

[Manco Capac]

@Tachy & @STW
A great deal of food for thought.

We never have enough pabulum in Civ4!
That is why I love that said game.
In any ways, just keep in mind that Epic and Marathon are levels where worker stealing must be pondered seriously.

I won't attempt to discuss all of the points you have both raised. It would simply take too long and produce a monster post. Also, I would begin to feel that I was taking over a discussion thread for a game that I have yet to submit an entry towards! Such bad manners

Awww. I thought you wanted expanded discussion in G-Minor 123, although that gauntlet is completely dead. Why not in G-Major 93 instead? I did take lot of room in G-Major 90 without a single submission and this didn't stop me to do so.
But I understand you must be fed up of a gauntlet that doesn't give the desired outcome. Right now, G-Minor 123 is giving chills. I never get a good map and the jungles ruin the chariot rush strat. I did have a good attempt, but my failure to capture Mansa marble capital (lost 6 chariots to two hill skirmishers) when I think back I could let that worker alone and just kill that warrior with my two chariots. Yeah, I played it too casually, thinking the RNG gods will spare me once again.
It is not a total failure but so much wasted! Oh yeah, that Mansa stole me Confucianism by one turn and got it through Oracle!

Just a couple of snippets:

To raise an army of vultures by turn 55 looks like I will need to follow the worker-capture strategy. (My mouth is still open, I am so stunned at how brazenly you carried this out, Tachy!)

I do consider my AI opponents very carefully, normally. I have a spreadsheet that I prepared myself from examining the XML files, which I refer to. However, this is hampered by a couple of things. First, my own irrational and random thinking! Second, the attributes that I have never incorporated into the spreadsheet.

On this occasion, I seem to have forgotten to re-draw the list of AI, and continued with the list that I thought were suitable for a peaceful victory. Bad move!

Also, the attributes I have never incorporated include just the kind of things you mentioned about Churchill and Wang, Tachy. Bad omission!

Now I need to start putting some of this into practice. Maybe not tonight, unfortunately, but before the deadline. Please!

Technically, to rush either Churchill or Wang Kon is bad. They're proctective. I didn't want them to be my neighbours. Wang Kon loves Caste System and I abuse that civic early. That's another point why I chose him.

Here's Kossin compilation of info regarding leaders.

Another good source of info about leader habits...

Good luck!

 

[AgedOne]

Awww. I thought you wanted expanded discussion in G-Minor 123, although that gauntlet is completely dead. Why not in G-Major 93 instead? I did take lot of room in G-Major 90 without a single submission and this didn't stop me to do so.

OK. I give in! I'll come back here and talk .
Actually I'm always willing to chat about strategies, the way the games are going etc. I just found I had very little time to spare over the last couple of days. Scarcely even enough time to read the helpful posts I was receiving. I felt a little guilty at asking for help but then going silent - so I posted a quick 'holding note' to let you all know that I was still around and not blanking you all!

This is a very strange style of play to me, and it will take a bit of getting used to. I have been warlike before, but it has either been on lower difficulties, or has been on small or tiny maps at the higher difficulties with carefully chosen victims. I have tried a handful of these early rushes now, and I find I 'wake up' in the middle of the game, suddenly struck by the thought that I am actually rushing the AI at Immortal level!!

I have tried re-picking the AI so that I am actively encouraging discontent amongst them, while keeping away from those with a penchant for building military. I chose some leaders who I thought would be likely to found religions:
Isabella, Mansa, Asoka, Hatshepsut, Wang and Pacal.
Then some more who would get on rather badly with these:
Churchill, Qin, Willem, Joao, Catherine and Pericles.

So I have 12 AI - not completely overcrowded but a little closer, especially considering the high sea levels.

The idea of AI that will not get on so wonderfully with each other is to hopefully lower the amount of 'you declared war on our friend' hits that I get.

So my plan is:
On the assumption that my continent contains 7 AI, to kill 5 of these by turn 150 (350 BC)
I must be able to control my economy, so I must have CoL and currency by this point.
Set aside my warlike ways, research full steam ahead and try to hit that Mass Media first.
If I don't, then I should still qualify as the largest population.
Meet the other continent and try to pick the right ones to befriend. (Probably those not quite so advanced on tech)
Win the UN vote, with my friends boosting my own large vote to over 60%.

I may be able to try another start tonight. Definitely have playing time tomorrow.

Agey
(Help this man become a warmonger)

 

[Manco Capac]

You'll see! Being a warmonger strongly helps in almost every victory condition. If I wasn't one, probably I wouldn't won a single gauntlet.

Don't be that stressful regarding replying my posts (or STW?)...I'm used to be ignored (at least in S&T subforum; all my threads are kinda unpopular). Even here, some people barely replies me...

I suppose you didn't use mapfinder, because with its use many high commerce tiles are easy of access. A powerful rush needs more than two commerce tile I think.

Other fast tips:
No Huts was a preferable option because you can't pop more than three. You don't want to see an AI popping BW too early. I did let random events though on a whim. Risky I know.

In my game, I changed to Caste System early for getting lots of Great Scientists. I barely used OR, switched into Pacifism as early as possible. Nonetheless, I chopped like beast every single forest to replace Slavery power...still thinking if it was a good decision to switch that early.

If you control Buddism, Hinduism and Judaism as I did, go for every religions except Islam (it can wait later). I did it and every civilization in other continents were pagan. I upgraded my triremes into caravels with missionaries already in place.

A shrine isn't necessary; even if my religion was widespread (~50%), I didn't even try to get a Great Prophet. Nonetheless, if you're looking for ~1500, maybe so.

No Pacal II. He loves wonders and he's a stingy tech trader (5 techs max).

More tips if it comes accross my mind later...

P.S. You can use that info Walter Wolf too. I hope you'll try once again.

 

[AgedOne]

@Tachy, just a couple of points from your post

I suppose you didn't use mapfinder, because with its use many high commerce tiles are easy of access. A powerful rush needs more than two commerce tile I think.

Actually I have been using MapFinder, but have found high-commerce quite rare. I think this may be because I left the rules as they were for my OCC attempts, where I needed commerce, but even more I needed high food and forests. Possibly my game settings were not suitable for getting lots of commerce tiles. Originally I was trying for tropical, high seas and hardly ever saw any gold.
Tonight I have set MapFinder going and found a lot of starts with gold, but using Arid climate. Tropical hardly found me one gold.

I have one with 4 gold (though the rest of the start may be garbage). Tempting.

No Huts was a preferable option because you can't pop more than three. You don't want to see an AI popping BW too early.

That is a good thought. If I started with a scout, the huts would be a little more in my favour. You have to weigh up the benefits against the drawbacks.

No Pacal II. He loves wonders and he's a stingy tech trader (5 techs max).

But I'll be killing him, I hope

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I have at least a dozen (abandoned, up to 1AD) tries on this. I am probably not up to immortal level.

Tried max opponents, min opponents, high food start, high commerce start, blew it with too many aggressive opponents etc.

Didn't have much time in the last couple days, but will try again before the deadline for sure. This one is distracting me from the minor, and the challenges (not to mention real life ).

cheers

 

[AgedOne]

Hmm. Tried a couple of starts tonight, but they haven't gone the way I was intending. Neither of them.

Both were 4-gold start locations. The second of these looked like a 3-gold until I moved and revealed a forth.

The first game went well in the very early stages with multiple warrior steals, but then I found that there were no metals anywhere near me. I abandoned.

The second one also went reasonably well, with worker steals from Pacal, but then I began to realise that the two of us were alone on a small continent.
That's where I have saved it. Pacal is dead. I'm alone with occasional barbarians, but I have enough Vultures to keep them down.

I just don't think I'll be able to keep up with the rest of the world on research, fighting this solitary game.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I did it

My first Imm win. I used to play on noble. Had (I think) two wins on monarch in the challenge 4 series, and now this I'll have to try prince and emperor now

The finish is 1700 and something (not competitive really), but I hope it qualifies for the gauntlet.

Will post the details if you wish (tomorrow, now I have to go to bed).

cheers

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

My first Imm win. I used to play on noble. Had (I think) two wins on monarch in the challenge 4 series, and now this I'll have to try prince and emperor now

The finish is 1700 and something (not competitive really), but I hope it qualifies for the gauntlet.

Congratulations! Its always great to see a player break into a higher difficulty level in a HOF game, especially when its also a Gauntlet win.

Sun Tzu Wu