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G-Major 96

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Denniz, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Thanks for the great write up, Stormi! I really enjoyed reading it.

    I'm happy to see that you leveraged Tactical Nukes into a Domination Victory. Now I understand your tactical use of lone Transports; with Tactical Nukes wiping out all defenders in a city who needs naval bombardment, strategic bombing, and artillery?

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  2. Stormi

    Stormi Chieftain

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    Retrying with similar map settings - 6Ais on Archipelago tiny islands map, this time as the Dutch, off to a good start, hoping for a win somewhere in the late 1800's. I think Fizbankovi may be on to something about quick speed being easier on water maps because of the increased movement of naval units.
     
  3. fizbankovi

    fizbankovi Warlord

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    well yeah fast ships are good, but mostly that the expansion of the ai is halted and the fact that they cant realy control seaborn Edit: naval warfare...
     
  4. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I agree with fizbankovi and Stormi that Archipelago Map with Tiny Islands has a lot going for it on these settings. The AI typically doesn't conduct naval operations very well at all; they are often awful in this (naval) aspect of warfare.

    If I have time, I may try Ragnar on this map type for a medieval era naval transported rush. I would use Galleys and Ragnar's unique unit.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  5. fizbankovi

    fizbankovi Warlord

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    @Stormi, looks like u managed 1882? ;)
     
  6. Stormi

    Stormi Chieftain

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    Yeah I got that my last play through as the Dutch. I used the exact same settings as before except for switching Alex out for Lincoln. I had a pretty unremarkable starting position of 3 clam + stone, but the island I was on looked like it would be able to hold 3 cities so I played it out. Like before I build the great lighthouse, then a couple settlers, then the moue statues or whatever they are called in my capital.

    Then because I had stone, and not much else to build I started working on the pyramids not thinking I would finish it, but just use it as an early way to build wealth when it failed to complete. However i was able to finish it, as I guess no AI's wanted it. It popped my first GP as an engineer so I quickly finished researching bronze working, whipped out a forge, then used the engineer to build the colossus. Great Lighthouse + early Representation + Colossus was a huge boost to commerce and I was able to stay ahead in tech most of the game. I captured my first cities with a mix of drafted musketmen and rifles with a few trebs sprinkled in. Lincoln, Japan, and Monty all capitulated really fast, after only losing 1-2 cities. The rest was just mop up, I actually didn't even need nukes hardly at all in this game, as I prioritized combustion and built a nice fleet of destroyers myself this time. Also dikes really helped me keep the production high enough to wadge a conventional war.

    My main problem was cities took so long after I captured them to pacify, then put out culture. I could have cut quite a few turns off the time by razing cities, and founding new ones in their place. I also should have been sending out more settlers earlier to those random 1 tile islands that no one was claiming. I had all but one AI vassaled and I had the last one down to 2 cities, and still wasn't at the domination limit at the end. I had to declare peace on him so my vassals wouldn't capture his last city and give me a conquest victory. So the last few turns I just sat with the culture slider turned way up just waiting for borders to expand. I think I will try one more time with 10 AIs to lower the domination limit, but I am not sure I can re-create the great early game from this latest submission.


    @Sun Tzu Wu - If you are going for a pre-navigation win, Ragnar is the best choice. With his unique building you can easily start off with 5 move galleys (navigation upgrades, with circumvention bonus). Also Berserkers keeping their amphibious trait when upgraded. I played as Ragnar before on a different gauntlet that wasn't deity, and even when I could build rifles it was better for me to build berserkers give them CR2 promotions then upgrade them to CR2 + amphibious rifles.
     
  7. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Thanks for the tip, Stormi. It's most appreciated. I'm still trying to get a good start going with Suleiman and using 2 Great Scientists to bulb Machinery and Engineering which requires no Fishing. However, I still may give Ragnar a try on Archipelago with Tiny Islands with Berserkers on Galleys. Haven't worked out yet how to get Machinery and Civil Service really quick, but building The Great Lighthouse and The Colossus sounds good for Commerce on water plots. Moai Statues and The Pyramids are good options with access to Stone.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  8. fizbankovi

    fizbankovi Warlord

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    @Stormi: I think the "Great Lighthouse + early Representation + Colossus " combo was the biggest part of that game. Getting those in place, and than expanding should put you in a position to controll the game.
    Sadly I think this settings require at least 5-6 good starting positions to try, and sooner or later you will get a game that offers a nice flow of early game. Thats the one you want to play to the end.
     
  9. fizbankovi

    fizbankovi Warlord

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    @Sun Tzu Wu
    I have found it literaly impossible to attack before rifles on any map with thes settings, and i spent more time on this one GOTM than on total of all Civfanatics ever. I have tried literaly every good UU i know from the anciant to medival era.. but even realy impressive starts run into concrete walls sooner or later.

    The challange is out. We know you can win this game on archipelagio, in post modern, and with rifles on continents setup.

    But is there anyone out there, with warmongering spot on and time efficient enough, ready to reroll untill that perfect start to realy roll over the AI Medival times?

    I call here all the good deity players on this site. There has been never a better time to prove a point. A screenshot heavy, well analized playtrough on these settings with an early win could be priceless. I for one would pay cash for it.

    GG and hf!
     
  10. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Rusten played a harder version of this gauntlet before on a large quick game with an ancient era start. I believe his record still stands in the HOF. If I recall, he cossack rushed everyone on a pangaea map.
     
  11. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Thanks for the challenge. I'm sure a Medieval Era rush is possible with Suleiman as I detailed before, but I'm not sure I will have enough time to complete such a game by the GMajor-96 deadline. The game will transition quickly from Crossbowmen and Trebuchets -> Knights and Trebuchets -> Janissaries and Trebuchets which should finish the game.

    shyuhe, an Ancient Era start is required for G-Major 96. Rusten's game while very impressive was a Conquest Victory game, not a Domination Victory as required for G-Major 96. Also, Cossack is an Industrial Era UU, not an Medieval Era or earlier UU. His game was harder in only one respect, it was a Large Map while G-Major 96 requires a Standard Map.

    Elizabeth with Red Coats and Nationhood for drafting Red Coats would be a better Industrial Era UU Strategy to use in my opinion. You would be able to Draft a Red Coat in a food heavy city with Globe Theatre. You can also omit Music -> Military Tradition and can build Red Coat before you have Nationalism (needed only for drafting under Nationhood).

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Here's a plan. Instead of trying to kill so many AI...

    Play Joao on Terra and axe rush a neighbor or two to get a decent size plot of land. Or just grab a lot of the crappy Ice tiles.

    Beeline Optics and settle the entire 'new world' with Joao's UU. You should have plenty of time before the AI gets Astronomy.

    Wish I had time to try it.
     
  13. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Well thought, really! But it somehow kills the challenge I guess. Even though I am extremely tight on time, you make me feel with that trick to give a try...;)
     
  14. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Please, teach a mortal how to rush 2 AI on quick speed with Axes!
     
  15. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Good plan, but Joao II is imperialistic and expansive, so you can REX and develop cities very fast and possibly reduce the need to rush 2 Civs with Axemen to 0-1 with some map luck of having a peninsula to populate.

    There are also some opportunities to bulb to Optics as well. One would also need to build up economic infrastructure and possibly build the Forbidden City or move the capital to the new world.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  16. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    With cities that build an Axeman each turn. Axeman are very cheap on Quick speed.

    Attack Civs that lack Copper and Iron mines or that can be pillaged on the turn of the DoW. Attack Civs that also lack Horse or include a defending Spearman in each stack. Remember that Axemen can decimate Chariots defending in a city, so attacking a Civ with Chariots can be easier than one with just Archers.

    Attack as many cities as possible on the turn of the DoW; the AI will not be able to send reinforcements to all of them. The AI can build up to one unit per turn in each, so speed is essential. Be sure your stacks have sufficient Axeman and victory is assured.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Rusten won that from an ancient start. He hit ~700 AD rifling. Depending on how many cities you keep dom should be reasonable there.

    I think 1880ish can be beaten or at least closed in on with simple PA abuse. I'll be testing that theory soon.
     
  18. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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  19. fizbankovi

    fizbankovi Warlord

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    @AZ Hey man! Nice win! I cant wait to watch the videos! BTW long time fan and subscriber of yours! GO DUDES!
     
  20. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    I would've won sooner that game you're referring to if I could win by domination rather than conquest, so nothing wrong with following that recipe. I had trouble staying under the limit and I wouldn't have had to kill Mansa Musa at the end.

    Researching MT and Music is insignificant. Music you want anyway for the free GP and by the time you get to MT your research may be as high as 1k beakers per turn. If you want to be competitive (*) then using 1-move units like redcoats is not good enough. They're far too slow. Globe is also pretty insignificant for a quick speed game.

    * Considering how nobody played this with an ancient start last time, but instead submitted lackluster games, this point may be moot.
     

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