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G-Major CIII

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by aafritz17, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Prince Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

    (*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

    Settings:

    • Expansion: Brave New World
    • Victory Condition: Science (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Emperor
    • Map Size: Large
    • Map Type: Large Islands
    • Speed: Standard
    • Leader: Any
    • Opponents: Must include Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar II), Denmark (Harald), Korea (Sejong), Maya (Pacal), Poland (Casimir III), Polynesia (Kamehameha), Shoshone (Pocatello), Siam (Ramkhamhaeng), Spain (Isabella)
    • Version: SV8
    • Date: 1st February to 31st March 2020
    The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
     
    vadalaz likes this.
  2. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    I definitely want to try Indonesia here, also considering Sweden, Egypt, Aztecs, Persia, Huns, Austria and Byzantium.
     
  3. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Yes, I think Indonesia is definitely strong with these settings!

    I had forgotten how absolutely horrible Large Islands maps are for science. It is like you throw out the benchmarks you are used to on other maps. Resource diversity is almost nonexistent. Space is confining, and most nearby islands to expand to AFTER Optics are tiny and/or lousy. Emperor level means barbarians and happiness must be dealt with.

    I tried several starts with the Incas, and there just isn't much advantage with mountains and voluminous nonspecial hills not in great supply even on 3 billion year old Earth.

    I also tried the Huns, assuming to try some nearby conquering and get some good peace deals.

    What I found was that if you can get an early battering ram upgrade hut and the city state on your island is not on a hill, you can get a quick expansion city.

    Had a very large island with 5 cities and a conquered CS, but it was on a hill and had to wait for horse archer support. I misplayed it a bit and had lousy map luck with deep sea blocking access to much of the world.

    I definitely think Indonesia should be a strong contender with those bonus luxuries aiding happiness, wealth, and expansion.
     
  4. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    I've played one game as Indonesia and I share all your sentiments about these settings. There's a serious lack of good tiles to work, so conquest is key here, I think.

    In my game I had a fairly isolated start at the southern edge of the map, with only one shallow water connection to the rest of the world. This resulted in few early trading partners, few tech discounts, few CSs and little room to expand with a lot more tundra than I would've liked. I had a nice capital, but otherwise I wasn't thrilled about this start. I went 6-city Liberty, researched Education on turn 135 and only finished my NC on turn 139.

    After Education my game went at a good pace. I went Navigation first to take capitals that had the best wonders. Galleass conquest wasn't an option, as I was too far away from the good capitals. I took Palenque, Babylon and Moson Kahni with frigates. The latter two were very good cities, Babylon was next to a mountain and had 4 wheat, and Moson Kahni had a university, which was a pleasant surprise. Palenque wasn't great, but it had ToA. Strangely, Pacal didn't even manage to found a religion.

    I think you really want a central start here, so that you can start killing things earlier, at least at Compass. Indonesia felt really strong, they're certainly a top tier choice here. I'll probably pick Byzantium next and try to take some capitals with Dromons.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Nizef

    Nizef Warlord

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    Totally agree. I decided to play as England because the SoTL will end up moving 8-9 moves/turn and thus speed up offensive warfare. The first start was an absolute garbage jungle start and the second was a tundra start. However I picked the third start (not great but at least "average", luxes are Cotton and Whalesx2). I managed three cities on my starting island, but both expands are tiny crappy cities (pop 14-15 on t250). All in all, the first 100 turns was a nightmare and I reached Education on t124 but I still had a lot to do on the bottom half of the tree. After that I worked my way to Navigation and started killing things. So far (t250), I have not made enough progress for the SV but I have killed (genocide, really) Poland, Spain, the Mayans, the Shoshone, Babylon and Polynesia and only kept the caps. Now I am at a crossroads: focus on the real SV target or kill some more. Fun but not very focused (as usual).

    EDIT: I stopped the killing and focused on science and was able to finish this painful exercise on t333. SP: full Tradition, Exploration 3, full Rationalism, Order 9 and full Patronage. I tried to nurture Korea but on Emperor I did not have much for it: they were 21 techs behind at the end.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  6. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    I may give this a try (but won't submit anything because I suck at fast victories; this will be good practice) I think William might be a good civ; not because he's particularly good at science, but island maps often have very little iron. So Sea Beggars should be able to dominate the seas for a long time. A swarm of SB's can capture just about any coastal city, and even if the AI recaptures it their city now has 1/4 the population and lost its culture buildings great works, walls, etc.
     
  7. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Very nice game! Yes, I agree that conquest is almost assuredly the best way to go here for expansion and overall science effectiveness.

    Haha, sounds like you cut a swath of destruction through the islands! Education on T124 is actually not that bad on this map. With all the cities, your score is probably really good :).

    I agree! Very good idea. The Netherlands are definitely worth trying here. If you can get a Petra type start with a river to build Polders, you could have a really nice tall empire with sea beggars able to do work later.
     
  8. Nizef

    Nizef Warlord

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    I would have thought so myself, but actually I only had about 3300 points. I am not sure why. I left Siam alone (not to risk getting a CV) and they had some Wonders, but that does not explain it. Maybe I developed the captured cities too late and too poorly?
     
  9. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    I think there's a size modifier for points you get from population, number of cities and land, so it's harder to get a very high score on Large/Huge with a normal (not Time VC) game. And I'm pretty sure water tiles don't give you any points at all.

    My Byzantium starts have been pretty weak so far, getting ~8 Dromons early is a pretty big production investment and I haven't rolled a map where it'd really pay off yet. I'll keep trying though.

    Edit: A couple more attempts later, I have to concede that it just doesn't work. Early AI capitals don't have anything useful in them to justify spending so much production on Dromons. With Frigates you at least get to choose the best AI capitals to take, but with Dromons you just have to take whatever is close to you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  10. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    I played this as William and it was a lot of fun. It took me over 400 turns to win, which is kinda pathetic. I don't know why it took so long because I science output was pretty good and I was way ahead of all the AI's. Part of it probably was Arts Funding passed in the world congress before I could do anything about it and that reduced my number of great scientists.

    Here's my little empire. As I suspected, there was no iron. I went 3-city Tradition->Exploration->Rationalism->Order. (I almost never play Order, but I had access to coal) I should have settled one more city somewhere but no place looked compelling. At the end I had 13 cities and about 6 or 7 of those were puppets. I razed a bunch of crap cities; Iron Curtain works for razing cities as well as annexing them.

    20200209170918_1.jpg
     
  11. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    It's a pain entering all the opponents when setting up for this game. I figured out a way to do it easily *if* you are playing the same civ again. Load the AutoSave_Initial or AutoSave_0000 file from your previous run. Then go to the menu and select Restart Game.

    (Y'all probably knew that already)
     
  12. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Epic... 13 cities and a bunch razed! Sounds like William was on the warpath all game. Did you start conquering from the archer/bowmen era or wait until later weapon techs?

    I am definitely going to give William a try too.
     
  13. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    This is a great tip! I don't think this is that widely known. Restart Game does not affect HoF entry status as well as you get a reshuffle of map and natural wonders.
     
  14. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    It is an islands map, so it is very difficult to go on the warpath (for everybody except Polynesia, or Byzantium on a favorable map) until either Compass (galleasses) or Astronomy (land units and most ships can enter deep water.) That also means they cannot attack you, so you can delay most of your military buildup until after you get your first 2 or 3 cities up and running. I didn't go to war until I hit Navigation.
     
  15. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    Montezuma is a good science civ as long as your capital and most of your expands have fresh water; a river is fine, it doesn't have to be a lake. What limits me playing Monty is always happiness. I played this game again and got a pretty good start, except all I had was multiple tiles with dyes and one sea luxury (crabs, I think) I ended up with about 5 or 6 dyes, but none of the AI's (even while they were still friendly) had anything to trade for them.

    I settled my 4th city very late in the game, when I found the Fountain of Youth. I settled next to a river and bought a Floating Gardens immediately (along with my free monument and aqueduct) and sent a production cargo ship. That city quickly caught up with my other cities, mainly from starting with the floating garden and aqueduct.

    Think I want to try India next...
     
  16. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    I'm really enjoying these settings. Current game (as Gandhi) is a lot of fun even tho' my finish time will be terrible. It's turn 373 and I finished all the space techs but haven't completed the Apollo Program yet. Why? Because I picked the first ideology and went Freedom, and most of the AI's went Order. Order is not the world ideology but it is dominant; now my culture is high enough they are not causing me much if any ideological unhappiness anymore, and I control enough city states they can't make it the world ideology. Pretty soon I will be influencing them because Delhi now has the national visitor center and the International Games are underway and I'm going to win. So all of them declared war on me at the same time; half of those were backstabs. Now I must kill them all! They are offering me cities for peace; I accepted the first one, from whom I think was the instigator, but I'm declining the rest and crushing them one at a time. "Crush your enemies! Grind their bones into dirt! Make them regret that they were ever born!" Then I will declare war again on Kamehameha and kill him completely.

    When I do finish Apollo, I have enough gold to buy most of the parts; maybe all of them. But science victory is no longer the point... :borg:
     
  17. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    The Huns are quite strong here. I've played two partial starts with the following approach:

    - Look for a production heavy start with a few pastures and at least one Granary resource
    - Liberty worker first to speed up Great Library. In my games I got it on turn 37 and 38 which I believe is pretty safe on Emperor. Chose Optics both times. Pottery - Writing - Sailing - Bronze Working
    - Monument - start Warrior - Granary - finish Warrior - start Shrine - GL - finish Shrine - Triremes and Battering Rams, Settler(s). You can probably finish the shrine before GL but it's a bit risky
    - Embark your warriors ASAP and try to get an upgrade ruin
    - Killing a CS early should be trivial with 2 BRs. You can also demand gold or a worker from them first
    - Get at least 3 triremes and try to meet AIs as early as possible, DoW them. With Battering Rams you easily have the top army score and AIs will give you gold and luxuries in peace deals
    - CSs are often seeking investors, so it might be a good idea to save up 1000 gold from those peace deals and get a nice CS ally
    - Embark rams and send them towards AIs and CSs. 3 rams and a trireme or two should be enough to take most capitals and demand gold/workers.

    I quit my first game because two AI capitals survived on single digits of HP. I only brought 2 BRs per army in that game and that wasn't enough. In the second game I was very isolated, so I couldn't get to AI capitals quickly enough. In both games I was swimming in peace deal gold and luxuries, 20+ happiness for a natural golden age before the Liberty one.
     
  18. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    Every time I play, no matter what civ I use and whether I go Freedom or Order, , I win on turn 385. (last game was Japan. The AI's kept declaring war on me, and I kept killing them when they did :lol:) That India game where it was turn 370-something and I hadn't finished the Apollo program yet? 385 (I built one part and bought all the rest while it was building; finished the whole spaceship in about 6 turns)

    Haven't tried Assyria or Venice yet...

    Is it against HOF rules to play Korea when Korea is one of the AI opponents?
     
  19. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Prince Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    Yeah, the rules state:
    Opponents:
    You may select who your opponents are. The selection must not include any leader multiple times, nor can you choose an AI leader identical to the one you're playing.

    http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/rules.php
     
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    Thanks.

    Turn 382 this time as Assyria. :lol: Assur and Seoul were my only cities with enough production to build rocket parts, and I used 3 engineers instead of the usual one. Once again I overran the tech tree, completing Internet, Lasers, and Stealth while the spaceship was building. Korea was my closest neighbor but too far away for any early-game warfare, plus I had no iron (or oil.) I did have coal so I picked Order for my ideology. So did Korea, one turn before I did. I played peacefully with everybody and was alway #1 or #2 (usually 2) in science, until Korea backstabbed me and tried to capture my island city (it was a good one with horses and 2 luxuries.) A swarm of turtle ships and ironclads attacked, but I had several submarines nearby and quickly built two more. And I traded for some oil.
    20200225134511_1.jpg
    I fought off his navy and posted submarines at all his harbors to plunder his trade routes. I used one of his island cities for target practice with my lone battleship to level up to logistics, meanwhile I was building 3 more battleships. I captured that city (waiting until the turn I finished whatever tech I was researching) then did the same with Busan and Seoul. I got 3 late-game techs that way. I wasn't going to capture Korea's last city; I used it for target practice again and gave a destroyer to a nearby allied CS thinking they would capture it, but the CS never attacked. I got annoyed when Sejong stole Telecommunications (by this time I was at Particle Physics) so I captured and razed that last city. (none of the other AI's cared that I annihilated Korea, even the ones with other ideologies stayed mostly friendly; I don't think they like Korea much)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020

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