G-Minor 134

[Denniz]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

[size=+1](*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
[/size]​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Conquest (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Noble
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Pangaea
• Speed: Normal
• Required: Always War, No Vassal States, No Tribal Villages
• Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians
• Civ: Celt
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 10th to 26th December 2011

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I like the Always War setting. I'd prefer it at a much higher level (Deity), appropriate to a G-Major, though.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Manco Capac]

I have to disagree, Sun Tzu!
Given we can't put "no tech trading" option on a HoF tagged game, then the setting is going to be way harder, if not impossible, than the special AW games from the super (TMIT loves that term) deity gamers in S&T subforum.
I know you like deity, but you will attain baldness before finishing a game.
Unless special conditions like Quechua, slower speeds, supreme abuse of lucks or maybe precise tweaking of map type, this setting is tremedously harsh.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I have to disagree, Sun Tzu!
Given we can't put "no tech trading" option on a HoF tagged game, then the setting is going to be way harder, if not impossible, than the special AW games from the super (TMIT loves that term) deity gamers in S&T subforum.
I know you like deity, but you will attain baldness before finishing a game.
Unless special conditions like Quechua, slower speeds, supreme abuse of lucks or maybe precise tweaking of map type, this setting is tremedously harsh.

I only said I like the Always War setting and Deity level. To clarify, I'd like to experiment with these settings to see what type of HOF game can be realistically won.

I said nothing about "No Tech Trading". I mean real Always War where the AI are at peace with everyone except the player and AIs can trade technologies with other AIs, if any of them is actually able to complete Alphabet before its too late.

I do agree with you that some settings must be made favorable to the player, such as Marathon and choice of any Leader, except Huayna Capac (Inca). A Tiny or Small Map would also help make the game easier to win. Tiny with a single AI opponent should be almost trivial to win with the choice of any player leader, except Capac (extremely trivial).

The Always War "deity gamers in S&T subforum" are living in an Ivory Tower of unrealistic options ("No Tech Trading"), yet they insist on Normal speed. Other than that what they do can be useful in a defensive war, but that's not the kind of war I plan to wage, so what they have done doubly useless to what I'd like to do with Always War and Deity level.

This is really not the place to get into a discussion about what would make a good Deity G-Major with Always War. I did not mean to start on here. May a kind hearted HOF staff person please move these posts to another, more appropriate thread?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[vranasm]

edit:
it won't be accepted :-( I rechecked settings and forgot to turn off vassals omg...

 

[IglooDame]

Hmmm... I'm usually playing somewhere between Noble and Prince. I wonder if I can handle AI dogpiling on me for the entire Standard/Pangaea game?

 

[Silverbow]

Always war is so incredibly annoying. Compared to the modern era AW game in the challenge, this was far, far worse; and makes me dread the English AW challenge game.

Isabella trolled me hard in my game, resettling razed lands of other civs and even settling offshore to force me to build two galleys near the end. Not that 1814 is anywhere near competitive anyway (I used gallics for a long time, upgraded to macemen once AIs got longbows, then teched to grenadiers and finished off Isabella with them. Pretty sure HA -> cuir -> cav would be better, but I didn't have horses in BFC and couldn't be arsed to try to settle 'em somewhere...).

 

[vranasm]

oh well I ended with 1020 AD, but as I said I forgot turn off vassals, ironic enough I didn't use them at all.

Used Boudica which is imo better leader for this challenge.
First AI can be captured by warriors. I rerolled until PH+forested PH to have 5 hammers and built rax + 4x warriors then worker.
Tech for BW, ironic enough I didn't get nor horses nor copper so I had to wait for IW, which was next tech after pottery (had FP's start)

I captured all AI's with axes+GW's, once GW's get into 3 promotions range they can kill axes in cities.
last AI was with cats.
It's important to get to currency soon enough and at good point in time stop conquering cities and instead start to raze them. I had this point around 15 cities.

The 1-move GW's were a lot of fun, but I think that HA rush could be probably better thanks to the distances...

oh well I used medium land, so high land could probably speed this seriously up...
I guess I will make another (this time with correct settings!) attempt "soon".

 

[Silverbow]

1020 seems pretty damn good. Didn't even consider warriors, forgot ai has no archers on noble. BTW, just me or is the landmass huge even with high sea levels?

 

[vranasm]

1020 seems pretty damn good. Didn't even consider warriors, forgot ai has no archers on noble. BTW, just me or is the landmass huge even with high sea levels?

inland sea, rainforest and some others are much bigger ;-)

on pangea you can expect ~10 cities per AI in late phase, in my attempt I captured/razed around 5-6 cities/AI. that's reasonable.

I wouldn't say that pangea is extraordinaly large, your view is probably due to it being mostly in middle and the huge mass of water around.

Pay closer attention to choosing "right" AI's. I played against Asoka, Gandhi, Roos, Lincoln, Elisabeth and Freddy.
Not sure if that is the best combo of course, but it worked reasonably well.
The only militaristic and dangerous was Freddy... he sent stack of 3 axes+2 swords+spear at a point... no other AI was that active (I was lucky with having the target city on hill, since that was capital from AI).

 

[Walter_Wolf]

AD?

Isn't this one of those cheesy BC conquest games setup?

What would (will ) I do?

- take a low seas and solid shoreline map, min. opponents (6).
- choose Boudica for the cheaper promotions.
- choose opponents who don't start with hunting or mining to delay their archers and axeman. No Protective leaders of course.
- find a start with a PH to settle, and a forested PH (in the 1st ring) for 5 hpt to be able to build warriors in 3 turns.
- build 4 - 5 warriors and walk over 2 - 3 closest opponents asap.
- decide (at start) if going with axes or chariots for the rest of them, so a worker is needed after the warriors.
- try not to explore much and that way declare war as late possible to prevent the AI from spamming units.

I might have forgotten something here, but that's the idea.

I think an early BC conquest is the way to go here.

 

[Silverbow]

Low seas? Do you actually mean high seas? Having more land to conquer would hardly help.

Also, you almost certainly won't walk over 2-3 neighbors with just 5 warriors. I couldn't even take out the second AI with warriors, as the distance was just too much for rush. I guess if one lucks out and gets two real close civs, one can warrior rush them without problems, though.

I got 1170 AD on second try, remembering to use warriors to take out at least Asoka early, then stomped the rest with Gallics, save for London, where Liz holed up with high culture and lot of longbows. Had to bring cats to finish that off, and it held me back almost 200 years. I'm pretty sure I should be able to improve on that a lot still (closer AIs would help a lot. Also, maybe Peri ain't exactly ideal choice, he builds a lot of phalanxes, more than other AIs axes).

 

[thbrown81]

Not being able to hut pop extra warriors to snag a couple empty cities at the beginning will slow the finish times down a little, probably keep them out of the BCs.

 

[Bugio]

I just finished a 740 AD, first try. Considering that:
-i'am not exactly pro, especially at rushing
-the start was avarage, got horse in BFC but no high commerce tile (not even in first city captured)
-the map was strange and couldn't pillage metal from last 2 opponents cause the only land access was completely blocked by 2 cities
-had some unlucky rolls

I believe BC win is well possible, as usual wastin time will try this and post some crazy timing proving my noobness soon enough.

oh, went for chariots for first civ, later HAs. You really want the movement.

 

[lymond]

arrgh....I had some of the worst RNG ever in my first attempt. So po'd. Literally lost hundreds of years to finish around 700AD.

I'm a big fan of the GWs and they can be quite fast on the right map. Still, HAs may be the way to go for this type of game. I like GWs in a Domination type of game for score.

I've been testing GWs with Boudi. However, if I try the mounted approach, I think Brennus might be better. Agg doesn't buy you much other than quick barracks. Spiritual might be nice for a couple of civic changes.

I might try a GW/HA combo as well...going for close AIs with GWs and following it with HAs.

I think early ADs is certainly possible with the right luck/map roll...maybe even BCs.

Regardless, this is a fun game.

 

[vranasm]

arrgh....I had some of the worst RNG ever in my first attempt. So po'd. Literally lost hundreds of years to finish around 700AD.

I'm a big fan of the GWs and they can be quite fast on the right map. Still, HAs may be the way to go for this type of game. I like GWs in a Domination type of game for score.

I've been testing GWs with Boudi. However, if I try the mounted approach, I think Brennus might be better. Agg doesn't buy you much other than quick barracks. Spiritual might be nice for a couple of civic changes.

I might try a GW/HA combo as well...going for close AIs with GWs and following it with HAs.

I think early ADs is certainly possible with the right luck/map roll...maybe even BCs.

Regardless, this is a fun game.

unless you screw up the settings like I did and get angry at yourself.

 

[lymond]

unless you screw up the settings like I did and get angry at yourself.

ha...i got the settings correct and still got angry at myself

 

[Bugio]

Must say, always war starting with scout is really annoying

 

[lymond]

^^^Yep...you gotta build at least 1 warrior first thing...before a worker. How many depends on the start and proximity of AIs. I've had some starts where I meet everyone in the first 5 turns with 5 enemy warriors trying to choke me, and then other starts where I don't get bothered at all.

I love GWs, but mounted is still always the best way to go with HOF. Chariots will take out at least two AIs while you bring HAs online. Overall success depends on proximity of horses and the AI. There's always one AI on the far side of the map that becomes a nuisance.

Warrior rushes are not advisable IMO here. If you don't get horse first thing it's time to use another map. AIs are getting archery much faster than I"ve ever seen on Noble.

You should NEVER face LBs in this game. If you are facing LBs you are doing something very wrong and should consider starting over.

I'm down to 500AD, but I'm more than certain that date will be beat by several hundred years. I'm been rushing and not paying attention. AW is a factor, but this is still Noble. The game is really very easy - just contending with more unit spam. Someone will get lucky - I know I haven't been lucky AT ALL....aaargh!

Due to mounted, I think Brennus actually gets the edge in this game, but it may just be a wash really. AGG is worthless here.

 

[Bugio]

I still think that boudica is better, but the difference is negligible. Spiritual here only saves 1 turn. The only civic change i make is the slavery one, maybe religion too if i get lucky with auto spreading. I don't even get to research other civics actually. The only techs you need are worker techs, IW (mainly for being able to see where to pillage), HBR+archery ofc, and if you have decent commerce go up to math for better chopping.
On the other hand, i build barracks in all the cities i keep, so the hammer save is handy. Combat 1 is nice for the super medic warrior (with barracks+GG experience you get wood 3+medic1+mobility), or a nutcracker if you like em.

I need to learn to split forces and fight more civs at the same time. Mastering that will give you a bc win i believe, for now i'm down to 540ad.