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[BTS] G-Minor 260 - Russia, Warlord, Space - Deadline Jun 28th 2021

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Noble Zarkon, May 31, 2021.

  1. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    ^ Good point. I may try a game with Peter but I have plans for him on another speed. Meanwhile I have a sighter game on this map size with Augustus but big and small. Only one worker from huts but 34 cities in the BCs. Crazy. Launch time looks like 1220 AD +/- 1. Non organized leaders should probably go for the 3 gorges. Organized leaders are probably better off building coal plants. Interesting point was Rome building nothing but warriors/chariots for a long time. A granary and the odd settler got built. It was a long time before Rome built its first worker.

    Random thoughts. Cathy could be interesting with a non-stop rush. But Cyrus/Hatty/Rammy all come to mind. If AIs could reliably have 2 cities by 2000 BC, it would be might possible to attack in 3 directions at once.
     
  2. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    There may be time yet to get in a Peter game. A corporate approach with Cereal Mills may be tenable. Bulbing path looks like it is possible to get to labs before even having observatories. That also implies labs before factories. It also makes me want to try a game with Sitting Bull. An early Stonehenge could mean a resource-less rush with drill 2 archers and dog soldiers. Dog soldiers are better vs warriors than chariots.
     
  3. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Taking a closer look at the ZPV 1330 AD game and doing some testing with Peter. I finished my trial game with Augie in 1360 AD. The last golden age ended inconveniently and a turn on tech was lost precipitating a turn lost on production. The other lost turn came from targeting a date that was not 2nd place. Who does that? Curiously the 950ish BC benchmark was Augie at 14 cities and ZPV at 9. Tech was close at that point but paths diverged so that there was a 750 year difference at education.

    So Peter has a 10-turn first worker? That's nice. The crazy idea I'm considering is bulbing to labs before astronomy and Kremlin whipping courthouses and observatories to get ready for lab whipping. That would be on the way to corporations so that CM and probably Mining Inc can get going before factories. 3 Gorges probably gets chopped in the Ironworks. Finally Apollo and out. Those RIs should be able to help produce some more scientists to bulb at the finish. State property before corps.

    Or I could try Catherine and spam cities.
     
  4. ZPV

    ZPV Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

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    Yeah, the early expansion in my game wasn't great - although since Hemispheres is enforced for this gauntlet you tend to run out of land so I pushed the tech a bit sooner too - by 950BC, I'd also built Pyramids, GLH and Oracle. On another map those would ideally come after another round of settlers.
    I don't quite understand the Superconductor-before-Astronomy thing - isn't astro a direct prerequisite (via Physics)?
     
  5. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    "I don't quite understand the Superconductor-before-Astronomy thing - isn't astro a direct prerequisite (via Physics)?" - quote

    Neither do I apparently. I forgot about compass bulbing and thought medicine was the prerequisite for refrigeration.

    I'm almost done with a Peter game for this gauntlet. Finish time should be between 1320 AD to 1400 AD. Game went off the rails somewhere. Around turn 70, I began conquest with 17 chariots at 4 cities. No gold or gems in capitol. 30ish cities by 100 AD. I'm at corporations vs state property point. Looks like sushi should come first before railroad. (Food for specialists.) Game went into overdrive faster than expected. Map may not have sufficient food for Peter. I do have another start with him on hold that had all 3 lux (gold, gems, silver). That map is unclear.

    Wondering about doing this gauntlet at 8 cities before rushing about turn 90.Then they all duplicate. 16 cites. Meanwhile the rush produces 8 more in twenty turns. So 24 cities by turn 110. That is still BCs. Catherine can do this best perhaps.

    This gauntlet makes me want to try this with Asoka or Darius so CHs get chopped/whipped ASAP. And huts too so Asoka can start with 2 workers one of which can be a super fast explorer. Asoka can really shine at standard and epic speeds. At marathon the change in worker cost essentially grants a free farm for everyone's workers.

    So I guess it's sushi and maybe Cathy this weekend.
     
  6. ZPV

    ZPV Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

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    I've run two more games.
    Firstly, one where I beelined Lib->Superconductors, then Communism (for Kremlin), then the usual techs. I wouldn't do this with any civ other than Russia, but Research Institutes feel just about strong enough to make it work. This one was a little bit ahead of my 1330 game but bombed out when I realised I didn't have enough high production cities to build all the space parts.
    Additionally, I learned that you can't really whip factories on this path (in State Property, at least), because there just isn't enough time to regrow the cities to push out the space parts.

    Then the second one was another small improvement, 1260 AD.

    As usual, I ran over 1 AI with warriors on the turn their first worker came out, but the other two were a little later, with Axemen.
    Gandhi was kind enough to build me Stonehenge and a shrine - which really just meant a ton of Great Prophet pollution. I was hoping he'd plump for the Pyramids too but just kept on pumping out missionaries (Ramesses builds them fairly reliably if he has stone).
    So I just went in for the kill once my axemen had finished marching across the map.
    The good news was that all 3 available AI capitals were strongish cities, and I also had a lovely river valley where two more max-production cities were settled (for SS Engine and Ironworks/SS Docking Bay/SS Stasis Chamber)

    I pushed early expansion (pre-1000BC) a bit more in this game, but then tech was sluggish for the rest of the BCs because Oracle, GLH, Pyramids and Colossus were all late.
    Cities 31 and 32 were settled at 25AD. These were the last (except a silver city in the other hemisphere for happiness)

    The tech path was different - Lib->Biology (450 AD), then Communism (SP and Kremlin), Astronomy, and a crawl to Superconductors (720 AD). But then it was close to 1 tech/turn the rest of the way (although this included Aesthetics and Music - Literature was a trade - which might be cooking the books a little bit!). The economy was on the ragged edge for pretty much the whole game, which was probably a good thing, but I think I need to push the early wonders back up the priority list a little bit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  7. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    1260 AD is a good time. Biology? Hm. My Peter game petered. Corps were not the way to go as startup only slowed down what was already something resembling a tech per turn pace.

    I couldn't get the early warrior rush to pay off much. However a brown cow start was enough to build 16 warriors and take out everybody, 3 AIs, by turn 50. Except the last 2 warriors both lost at 84% odds. 6 warriors have a fair chance against archer + warrior.

    Cathy gets cities out pretty fast to let the 3 AIs expand while getting teching done. That will be where I make my next try.
     
  8. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Well, I have a game with Catherine. I think. Turn 70. 1200 AD. This is the time where pre-game strategy calls for expanding to 8 cities while building an army. Except I finished conquering everyone 5 turns ago. 3 AIs. City number 10 is about to go down. 10 chariots built. 2 AIs had 5 workers, a cottage, warrior defended capitols, and no slavery. 2 gold mines proved sufficient temptation. The last AI had a worker and 3 good reasons for conquest. All of them gems. Never has a starting scout been so useful. Did I mention that all cities are on rivers? How about the stone? Marble? Food surpluses? A zillion food plains? Sorry. Slipped my mind.

    Meanwhile I have torn up the pre-game plans, opened a window, and have tossed them out. Something is bound to go wrong.
     
  9. ZPV

    ZPV Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

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    Wow, that sounds like a great start!
    I tried leaving an AI alive until 1AD... they founded 3 cities and generally did nothing. :cry: So taking them out so efficiently definitely feels like the way to go, when it's possible.
    This next period is the one I struggle with the most - I feel like I probably need to set myself some milestones in terms of tech level, number of cities (real cities & fishing villages), number of population, and buildings/tile improvements.
     
  10. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Start was good. Basically a worker steal and wait. Middle game was off somewhere. Mining Inc may be enough. 2nd corporation is very dubious. Still state property may be best. Anyways I had 31 cities by 200 BC. Also, I have 4 turns of tech left and it’s about 1270 AD.
     
  11. ZPV

    ZPV Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

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    In my game I fired off the first golden age at 175BC (MoM was already built) despite expansion not being done yet, and overall economy not being great (currently researching Machinery; 140bpt breakeven without GA, 280bpt in the GA, plus some gold saved up and Colossus about to finish).
    But this sped things up so that Banking and Hanging Gardens both finished at 1AD and then suddenly research was 650bpt and growing, with Education just around the corner.
    It's the period before that first golden age that I'm trying to optimise now. I always regretted not having forges done when the industrial age comes around, so I prioritise them really highly, but maybe I don't have to build them right away either.

    As for the very start - yes the worker steal instead of warrior rush strat does look appealing. I'll have to try it and see how it compares.

    Corps vs SP? I've never been able to get corps going as fast as an optimised SP run on Normal speed, and I don't think these settings are any different.
     
  12. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    ^Very similar approach. Checking my Augie game means Cathy could be in SP 10ish turns sooner. Augie finished in 1360 AD. Both corps are yielding a 5ish turn slower finish. (I did forget a civic change before golden age ending.) Though Corp whipping mystical 3000 gold or more in my account. Where is that coming from? And can that be prepped? Like prepping CHs/forges in advance?
     
  13. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    1400 AD with Cathy. Game would have been much better with state property. Probably by as much as 10-15 turns. However, Mining Inc as the sole corporation has some intrigue. The situation after it has spread was not horrible. Beaker rate was 140+ before banking. Around 475 after banking if I remember correctly.
     
  14. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Screenshot at 1200 BC. City 10 about to be founded. Moscow has already spammed 5 cities. Gold to the north was really nice.
     

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