[BTS] G-Minor 270 - Darius, Deity, Time - Deadline May 29th 2023

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Thanks again to Firmlife for persevering with me, my game play has taken a quantum leap forward! Congratulations BTW on completing the scenario. Looking forward to when you submit it and see what other tips I can utilize in my own play.

I started a new game myself yesterday, asked Map Finder to save maps with oil, uranium & 20+ river tiles; averages 6 or 7 saves each time its run. From those saves I’m lucky if more than 1 looks playable, but that’s all that’s needed.

This is not the type of map I’m used to playing, nor is the strategy of a workshop‑based economy either! So, using the game my mentor Firmlife recommended as a template I delve into uncharted waters: -

• Turn 0. I change civics and adopt: - Universal Suffrage, Bureaucracy, Serfdom, Mercantilism, Organized Religion.
• Set research for Rocketry although NO commerce will be assigned towards research.
• Move Explorers & Marines to reveal maximum amount of terrain.
• Dot Map for city placement; ensuring both Uranium & Oil are within a city’s ‘fat‑cross’, cities are riverside with access to seven 5-hammer tiles with enough food to work them.
• Turn 1. FOUND 3 CITIES… here goes, we’re up & running ...

The Explorers set out to find targets, sorry I mean neighbours and the Marines head back to the cities to act as garrisons. I the set slider to 100% commerce then adjust the culture slider to satisfy the happy cap (throughout the game monitor and adjust as necessary). My build order was 2 more workers giving me a total of 4; with hindsight I should have built 4 before starting on the infrastructure. In addition to a levee, factory, power plant & barrack I also built theaters & hospitals which may have been overkill as it probably delayed Tank production by 4 turns. I’m on a learning curve and just not used to seeing so many green faces and the culture slider set so high. Workers prioritized food and hooked‑up the uranium before turning to the task in hand Workshops!

Turn 10. I’m definitely suffering from the lack of workers; I also realized the need to rush a Great Person early, I need a Golden Age. I’ve picked up a religion so want to convert and Mercantilism had served its purpose, time for State Property. I turned one city into a GP farm for a turn while the other two made the extra workers. The GP started a Golden Age and I converted to Buddhism & adopted State Property. On the sixth & final year of the GA I changed civics again adopting Police State, Vassalage, Caste System, State Property & Theocracy. The TANK PRODUCTION LINE is almost ready to roll.

To be continued …

 

[Firmlife]

Turn 10 was also my evaluation point (I played 3 or 4 starts to turn 10 and picked the best one). You seem off to at least as good a start as I was, possibly a little better.

I did a number of things different from the game I linked, the most significant here is that I did run heavy in my research slider from the start, figuring I'd find some way to make money if I over-expanded. (I ended up just growing my cities larger than 10 and slowly transitioning to a kind of hybrid cottage-workshop economy that produced enough revenue alongside cheap courthouses and organized.) I think it might be good for you to just run a pure conquest game, get some experience, get comfortable, and see how it goes. But for a Time game, you'll need to reach modern armor and jet fighters since you'll need to keep some AI's around but still be able to militarily dominate them, and you'll want to be sparing or avoid nukes because you want a strong environmental base to grow big cities.

For a pure conquest game, prepping to get Rocketry and only Rocketry is probably the way to go. For a Time game, you'll need to tech trade with the AI to keep up. Generally, the easiest way to do that is to pick a somewhat expensive tech that the AI's likely won't research, then trade it for all their cheap techs. For that purpose, I'd probably avoid Rocketry. Again, I'd probably recommend you start with the simpler approach of a conquest game, get used to playing at the Deity level, and follow-up with a more complicated game plan that's better suited to a Time game. Learning how to profitably tech trade with AI's at Deity, where they typically offer you a 20% discount on your techs, is something that can take a couple games all on its own.

Good luck!

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Phase 1 of the game plan is complete; my core cities are producing 3 City Raider II Tanks per turn. Now all I have to do is learn how to use them!

Fast forward to Turn 23. - Its 1934 and the Persian Military Machine is ready to flex its muscles! First in the ring ~ Gandhi. There’s no finesse on my part just pure brute force; I take a bunch of tanks and keep attacking until the defenders are no more, then rinse and repeat city by city. Using this approach, I annex 5 Indian cities (Pataliputra 1936, Bombay 1940, Agra 1946, Vijayanagar 1952, Delhi 1954) before agreeing to a cease fire. I now regret leaving India with the one solitary city of Varanasi as the ‘We yearn to join our Motherland’ is a real pain in the butt. Lesson learnt, I turn my sights on De Gaulle and annex all 7 of his cities; he’s now just a rumor.

Isabella was the first to complete The Apollo Program (1940) and she’s conveniently on my border, hence she’s the next victim. I’ve reached game Turn 51. (1985) and annexed 5 of her cities with 4 to go. So far, casualties are minimal; I have a Shock Army of 50+ tanks I think it’s time to organize them in to Battle Groups and be a bit more methodical.

I’m also thinking should I form an Amphibious Assault Force and take coastal cities that way? … surely The best way to secure a bridge is to simultaneously attack both ends; NO?

At the moment only Mansa Masa, Elizabeth, Frederick & Isabella have the Apollo Program; so, after Isabella I’m going after Elizabeth & her lapdog Gandhi. I’m planning on keeping all their cities but from then on implementing a scorched earth policy.

U.N. Resolution #3312 (Universal Suffrage) has forced a change of civics, I guess I’m no longer a Despot Dictator … we’ll see. Finally, Frederick has just completed The Manhattan Project. I need Rocketry and must check who has access to uranium.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

I’ve played up to 1994 Turn 60., but now I really have to up my game! When I capture Gandhi’s last city next go, I will have knocked‑out 3 opponents but the other 5 have spaceships well under construction; of which I believe America the leading light.

Too compound matters I made a major blunder last turn by DoW on Gandhi believing him to be under the protection of the English. My forces were poised along Elizabeth’s borders primed & ready to go only to find he’s actually Frederick’s vassal. Needless to say, I was totally taken by surprise and have now stopped play to re‑evaluate my options.

On a brighter note, two U.N. Resolutions have been PASSED. #104 (Single Currency) & this one really was a blessing, #1284 (Nuclear Non‑Proliferation Treaty)

Cannot Build Nuclear Weapons!

The 5 remaining Empires are spread‑out in all directions, Elizabeth is isolated to my east, Hattie up in a peninsula to the northwest with Freddy, Lincoln & MM grouped together in the west (map).

At present I have 28 cities, 12 of which are in full military production mode turning out 11 tanks per turn between them. Disregarding garrison troops I have 98 tanks, 2 double-movement artillery, 1 explorer/medic & an Amphibious Assault Group (AAG) comprising of 20 marines, 5 transports & 2 battleships at my disposal.

What I’m planning is to split the Tanks into 2 Shock Army Battle Groups, BG1 passes through America into Mali in a position ready to double back and skirt between Boston & Seattle and do a direct assault on Washington. BG2 continues through Mali attacks & razes Hamburg before sacking Berlin. The AAG will test its mettle with an amphibious assault on Chicago. A 3rd Battle Group (BG3) will be formed with the first 20 Tanks off the production line to sack Portland. A 4th & 5th BG of 30 tanks each will be formed and tasked with razing London. I will deal with Egypt when troops become available and Mansa when hostilities cease between myself Germany/America.

Wish me luck!

 

[Firmlife]

Good luck!

I had noticed that you were a bit isolated in a corner on your start. At times I wished I had been in a corner too as borders that expand into ocean take no new land, but ultimately, I think it was better to have easy access to almost all the AI.

You say you have two move artillery which suggests you have Lasers. How's the tech going? I'd also suggest a bit more of a navy to go with your 2 battleships. The AI do love to build navy even on a pangea map and there were wars where I definitely lost 2 battleships (but probably none where I lost 3).

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Hi Firmlife, it seems only you and I taking on this challenge at the mo; hey never mind, I'm so glad you are here. My research is almost non-existent as I've only just discovered Rocketry (I wish now I hadn't assigned wasted any commerce or scientists to research as gold to 'Rush Buy' would have been a lot more useful. Elizabeth has built 'The Internet' so as long as I keep the remaining Civs alive, when I capture it I'll be right up there with them technicality too). Hence lasers are still a distant dream, the 2 Artillery Units have Warlords attached allowing them to keep up with tanks. Also the Amphibious Assault Force was a waste of resources, 30 extra Tanks makes better sense.

Turn 65. 1999 AD. - 130 Tanks straining at the leash; I'm gonna cut 'em loose next turn!

Don't worry about the crosses they'll be healed next turn.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Turn 70. 2004 AD: - My two main objectives in the west have been achieved ; both Hamburg & Berlin are rubble along with the American cities of Portland & Seattle. Righty or wrongly I chose to keep Washington because of The Pentagon building. I have taken a cease fire with Freddy so I can concentrate my war effort against Lincoln & Elizabeth. I need to erase Chicago**, Houston & New York to allow a corridor to MM in the near future. On the Eastern Front I have captured/annexed York opening a pathway to 'The Jewel in the Crown'; LONDON!

**I lost 20 good men with my ill-fated amphibious assault; I'm afraid Marines just don't cut it any more at this stage of the game.

Foolishly, I have twice defied the U.N. Resolution #743 : Global Civic - EMANCIPATION and incurred a minus 10 happy cap penalty , resulting in a cut in tank production to 10 units per turn. To offset this unjust punishment I've embarked on Empire-wide Theatre & Colosseum building program which equates to the loss 40/50 military units. I'm going to revisit my cities and see how much I have to raise the culture slider.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Hello is anybody there?
How long does the penalty last? Is it 20 turns per defile? ... If I conform and adopt Emancipation will this erase the the unhappiness?

 

[Firmlife]

Hello is anybody there?
How long does the penalty last? Is it 20 turns per defile? ... If I conform and revolt and adopt Emancipation will this erase the the unhappiness?

I've never defied. I think you have three options: 1) search the forums and the internet and try to find the answer 2) adopt Emancipation proactively 3) crank up the happiness slider. For 2) even if it doesn't remove the defy penalty, you will at least get rid of the "jealousy" penalty.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

New question(s). If I capture the U.N. city and sack it does the U.N. no longer exist? And will the unhappiness disappear with it?

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Right from the outset Firmlife said:

I definitely have more experience than you on Deity, so don't expect necessarily to win your first game doing what he did. But I think you should make enough progress to not be so frustrated

Yes, I am making mistakes, mostly minor ones which will not alter the outcome of the game just lower my score at the end, but this 10 unhappiness penalty could completely ruin any chance of a win. I made a bad choice by defying the U.N. resolution (twice) which is something I won't do again without good cause but now I must make a decision on how to move forward in a positive way. I feel I have two choices: -

(1) carry on with the plan to build Theatres & Colosseums, crank the Culture Slider Bar up high and raze the U.N. city a.s.a.p.

​

(2) adopt Emancipation

I don't know if either one will do the trick? But I do have two Great Persons so I'm going to start a Golden Age and change civics. If that doesn't work I'll fall back on option (1). London along with the Internet also has the Cristo Redentor which will allow me to change civics back to Caste System (& even Police State if I so wish).

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Turn 71. 2005 AD: - In the end I took one turn away from military production by building a Theatre or Colosseum then raised the Culture Slider Bar to 70%; back to building 20+ units per turn! My casualty rate is rocketing, Elizabeth has Modern Armour but thankfully in low numbers. The sooner London falls the better; I need air support & Mechanized Infantry to keep the war machine rolling. If I fail to take it in the next couple of turns I think it maybe Game Over as her Spaceship only needs an Engine & Stasis Chamber to launch.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Turn 76. 2010 AD: - I have finally accomplished the objectives of Berlin, Washington & London. I’ve agreed a cease fire with both Freddy & Lincoln. I also managed to pry Ecology from Lincoln; which in turn enabled my workers to scrub the radiation fallout around Delhi. I’m not sure who was responsible but either Germany or America had an ICBM in their arsenal before the U.N. banned the making of nukes and didn’t hesitate to use it!

Again, I’m taking a timeout to access the situation. The U.N. Resolution #1109 (Global Civic - Environmentalism) has forced me out of State Property and now my citizens are starving to death! I’m unsure whether to build a few farms and continue with the workshop ideology or transition over to cottage spam. Although the upshot from this civic change is both health & happiness caps have increased so the Culture Slider is back down to 30%.

But by far my biggest shock was London not giving me The Internet; I’m guessing it’s a ‘National Project’ which like the Apollo Program has to be built inhouse to get the benefit much like a National Wonder does. Please, can someone confirm my assumption because hypothetically if broker a cease fire with Elizabeth and get Computers from her will I be able to build The Internet myself?

 

[Firmlife]

I can't tell you definitively how The Internet works, I just don't use it that often, but my understanding is that it can only be built once and that it is a "World Project" more like The Manhattan Project than the Apollo Program. I didn't realize it until your last post, but I'm not surprised you can't "capture" The Internet.

I think you have two choices regarding workshops. You can convert enough to farms to keep going, or you can go cottages. My advice would be to assess your situation. I think one advantage you have that I didn't is you have no vassals, so you can raze cities, eliminate opponents, and not worry about your vassals filling that empty space and pushing you over the domination limit. That would be my plan in your situation, to start eliminating the player (or two) closest to a space win, razing any city I didn't want to keep myself, until no opponents remain. The question then, is do you have the troops to do that without making more? If so, then cottages and tech. Otherwise, how many are you going to need to build to do that? Will you need workshops to build that many? At some point, hopefully, you'll be down to one AI with a handful of cities and at the very least at that point you can go cottages.

Keep in mind, that taking an opponent's capital only destroys their spaceship if it has already launched. If they are still building it, you can only destroy it by taking ALL of their cities (or by waiting for them to launch it and then taking their capital). I think it might not have come through, but I did both. For Augustus and Pericles, I destroyed them, kept some cities, and gave the rest away mostly so they couldn't tech trade with any of my vassals. But my last five opponents, who were a bit further away from building a spaceship, I had to keep alive for the dom limits, so I made sure if they were close to launching a ship that I had a strike force that could get to their capital quickly.

(I actually wonder if having more opponents increases their tech rate because they all trade with each other. It often seemed like they would complete entire tech levels at once, probably by trading their techs around.)

But I think the main thing is to keep in mind that really, objectively, congratulations are in order! You're at turn 2010, you made a bunch of mistakes that may stop you from getting to 2050, but you got to 2010 (and more)! That's some big progress. I must have played half a dozen games (none past 1995 or so) before I won, learning and improving each time. The lessons and techniques you learned will be applicable not just to your next game in this Gauntlet, but to many other Civ IV games you might play!

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Hello is anybody there?

Lots of people reading but most don't have anything to contribute to this amazingly informative thread.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Turn 76. 2010 AD: - Yet again the lack of experience on my part at this level/era shows itself. I genuinely thought by capturing an opponent’s capital reset their spaceship construction to zero; hence the focus on Berlin, Washington & London etc. If I’d known my warring would have been a lot different than how I’ve played in this game! … By concentrating forces and dispatching one opponent at a time with complete kills, I’m sure, I’d be down to only 1 or 2 opponents by now. C’est la vie.

The Internet Project remains an enigma. Yes, it is a World Project (1 allowed), England built/owns the Internet but it seems to be a ‘web’ across their entire Nation not just a single city. I am pinning my hopes that once I annex all Her cities, I will gain control of the Internet for myself. It will be good if it does!

Along with Environmentalism I’ve also adopted Emancipation hoping to eradicate the unhappiness caused by refusing the U.N. resolution earlier, but unfortunately to no avail; although the angry mob demanding it have rejoined the workforce. I started a Golden Age so workshops are still 4/5 hammer tiles but now need farms to support them. The short‑term plan is to build just enough farms to work the maximum tiles per city then adopt Free Speech & Free Religion and cottage spam.

 

[Firmlife]

I genuinely thought by capturing an opponent’s capital reset their spaceship construction to zero; hence the focus on Berlin, Washington & London etc. If I’d known my warring would have been a lot different than how I’ve played in this game! … By concentrating forces and dispatching one opponent at a time with complete kills, I’m sure, I’d be down to only 1 or 2 opponents by now. C’est la vie.

Sorry about that. I realized while reading your previous post that you might have gotten that impression from me. During my own game, I wasn't sure myself how this mechanic worked, I don't think I'd ever destroyed a spaceship before. I read a bunch of threads here and while there were a few who thought you needed to capture all of someone's cities to destroy the in-flight spaceship since that's what you need to do before it launches, I'd say 80-90% were saying just taking the capital once it launches is sufficient.

In the end, I just kind of ran out of options since I couldn't eliminate everyone and have my vassals take the thus-emptied territory. I was preparing to eliminate Elizabeth when she surprised me by launching a spaceship, so I got to immediately put the theory to the test. And once her spaceship was confirmed destroyed, I really had no reason to eliminate her.

My gut is that if you can take three capitals in a few turns, you're still in good enough shape to eliminate AI's as needed and win the game, but I don't have as much information as you do.

I just submitted my own game, hopefully it's accepted, it's a lot of time invested. I'm experimenting with some Classic/Renaissance starts, trying to figure out the best conditions for optimizing score before I commit to a new game.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Turn 78. 2012 AD: - Bugger!

And I can’t do a thing about it … Timbuktu is too deep within Mali to reach before it lands. I’ve DoW MM & dispatched troops which really is futile so I’m going to call them back next turn and press an all-out attack on Lizzy; I want to find out if I can gain control of the Internet.

I really have learnt so much, not only with this game but the whole GM 270 scenario. I am certainly going to give it another try using the same Workshop Base Economy but next time I’ll takeout one opponent at a time, prioritizing the destruction of the U.N. city as soon as banning the building of nuclear weapons is passed. Also, my micro-management needs improvement; I had far too many hammers going to waste. I will continue to play this game until England is completely under my control just to satisfy my curiosity, because if I can capture the Internet research really is a waste of resources.

 

[Lcpl Jack Jones]

Turn 84 2018 AD: -

GAME OVER ​

And you CANNOT capture The Internet.

 

[Sgtpeppers]

I'm enjoying the discussion for this gauntlet so far. Looks like Lcpl Jack Jones is getting ever closer to a victory.
Considering having an attempt myself, mainly due to the deity/minor combination and also the lively competition.
Before I dive into a game, would this gauntlet be valid for EQM if I submitted a future start? I notice the valid EQM games on the tables are now all ancient starts...

Not sure I have the skills to pull off an ancient start time victory here.