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G-Minor 78

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Ozbenno, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    While it is true that org is not terribly good on low difficulties, philo isn't the best when your empire have insane sizes either. IMP or EXP might be better for the hammers saved on early development everywhere. CRE is another alternative (If there is water on the map, say big and small, then willems UB is actually decent, though water tiles are still worse than land tiles...). Philo does speed up oxford through faster unis though and for space oxford might be rather good.
     
  2. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    At long last. 715 AD win with Darius. 206 workers, one fortified outside my capitol. I'd give him a banner. 94 cities, 65 hours of game play and 414+k. Don't know if there is any interest in a writeup/round up ... It's been submitted and awaiting acceptance.

    @oyzar

    Philosophical does have advantages that do not necessarily relate to empire size. What IS important is to maximize your leader's traits. Before returning to Darius for a second game, I gave Elizabeth, Asoka, Frederick and Peter 40 turn tryouts. They all looked playable. My problem was that I couldn't outline a decent game plan for each one. Darius was selected because I could devise a game plan and stick to it.

    Organized: After playing this game I can see ways of putting the Roosevelt's traits to use. He could prove useful in playing for a fast win. On the other hand, Washington could be useful in playing for score. On a highland's map targeting Mining Inc. with Roosevelt would really max his trait's while Cereal Mills would max Washington's. I say this because it struck me rather late in my game that Darius' apothecary/supermarket was useful for scoring purposes. Washington's +2 health would make the American mall useful due to it's extra happiness, something Darius doesn't have. (But on a highland's map Asoka's workers may be of more critical importance than Roosevelt's industrious trait.)
     
  3. narri

    narri Warlord

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
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    221
    :worship:. I never had more than 20 or 30 workers and 15-20 cities. And I seriously don't have the patience for a 65 hour game!
     
  4. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    @narri
    LOL. A small part of the 65 hours came because I was afraid to turn off the computer when not playing fearing I had not saved it. It's been accepted. I must confess to being tempted to try Washington for a high scoring game. The American mall strikes me as being very well placed for this. A person doesn't want a super fast win, merely a fast enough win with a very large population. In my Darius game cities were getting supermarket's before the space race got under way (and before aqueducts.) But the mall's ability to "pop up" is fantastic. For a delayed win it's 20% income boost is very nice for space victory. Also, I never failed to build Stonehenge or the Effiel Tower early so Washington's charismatic trait is good for population.

    Other observation's:
    1) Financial isn't as effective at settler but is still very good
    2) With the sheer number of cities possible, converting hammers into science may be feasible. Roosevelt's faster forges/factories puts ideas into my head. The Great Lighthouse and Colossus ... hammer/science cities ...
    3) Early exploration is imperative at settler. The fastest unit available is the fast worker ... hmmm
    4) Bottom line: being fast AND financial may be hard to beat.

    My main strategy for this game was to have my initial 6-7 settler-popped cities kick out 2 workers pronto and warrior rush my future Oxford city. I was not expecting to pop 12 settlers.
     
  5. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Thought I'd give Roosevelt a try at this. A 15 settler start, but lost one due to war. (My bad.) Four AIs bit the dust by turn 100 due to warrior rushes. Massive REX start but lots of cash on hand for expenses. A different path through tech and, comparing to my Darius game, tough to call. But the light is beginning to clear the darkness. It's 170 AD and Roosevelt appears to be breaking my previous attempt. He's up a solid 4-techs: democracy, radio, industrialism and plastics. Perhaps its a 10-15 turn improvement. It is also is fodder for improving play with Darius.

    I would not hold out for plastics from liberalism with Darius, but Roosevelt had other ideas ...

    Final result: Roosevelt won in 630 AD. 102 workers. 51 cities, granaries, courthouses, factories, grocers, malls and jails. (Never had a game where every city had a jail.) 52 forges, one had to be rebuilt due to hurricane. I liked the mall. Managed to find some uses for it. Darius could beat this date ...
     
  6. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Elizabeth can also beat this date: 555 AD by ShannonCT. :) Darius may have a current game underway ...

    Shannon's game is nice. Over the past week, I reinstalled BTS and looked at the original Kamino game. There are some interesting differences. Shannon's recent game had a final 6600 in GGP points for the next GP while Kamino's game ended with something like 1500/1800. This leaves a person rather mystified as to how the BC date was managed. Kamino's map was larger so maybe there is some edge there. Kamimo also had something like 88 workers by 2000 BC. And something over 150 by game's end on 55 cities. (Okay I can see how this helps.)

    My gut says that a non-terra map may be best for the simple reason that settlers popped from huts are more useful early than late. Tech popping early or late is probably more neutral. ... Never thought I'd find settler level this fascinating but if the BC barrier can be broken ...

    Darius finished in 490 AD. Borrowed ideas from both ShannonCT and Kamino. By turn 100 all 8 AIs had been DOWed: 6 conquered, 1 worker heist and 1 aborted war. In the space rat race, state property was used. Nearly every city was pushed to the brink of starvation in what became a micro-manage-mental hell. The engineer from fusion ended up being used for a levee in the capitol. With 1 turn left for ecology a scientist popped up and was used for an academy in the next-door FP. Anything to make certain of the last beaker. The last engine city was down to 1 food for the last turn of production: had 10 workers ready to convert a mine into a windmill. BLAHHHHHHH!!!! (Finished the game in record time--only 52 hours.)
     
  7. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    I will move on to another map size. But the conclusion this gauntlet has brought me to is this: if one wishes to break the BC barrier on settler then the organized trait is the number one trait to possess. Time constraints are so critical that factories assume a priority so great that anything else is of secondary importance. Not only does this trait speed up their construction but the reduced maintanence and faster courthouses are a means to this end. Hence, the financial trait is the only other trait to achieve this goal fast enough. Even if one stipulates financial as the best trait, it is really only a means to an end -- a paradox.

    An unrelated conclusion: BUFFY is a very nice mod!
     

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