G-Minor CXLXX

[Denniz]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!​

Settings:

• Expansion: Brave New World
• Victory Condition: Diplomacy (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Prince
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Fractal
• Speed: Standard
• Leader: Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar II)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: SV8
• Date: 6th July to 1st August 2018

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[vadalaz]

Expansion: Gods & Kings + DLC

Shouldn't this be Brave New World? It says GnK on the gauntlet page on the HoF site too.

 

[Denniz]

You are correct. Good catch. Fixed.

 

[JoeSham]

Any guesses on good achievable times?
Also, anyone willing to discuss approaches?

 

[vadalaz]

A good goal for Diplo games is T180. You'd need a T132 Printing Press for that if I remember correctly.
It's easier to get a very good time with the warlike approach as long as you have some AIs on your starting landmass.

 

[JoeSham]

Yea I was thinking something similar. Just not sure whether to start taking cities asap or only later after NC etc. Also not sure whether to go just 4-city Tradition with it or rather Trad/Liberty combo and a bit more cities.

 

[vadalaz]

4-city Trad is very strong for Diplo, you don't really need the wide empire beakers to reach Atomic era fast. Depends on the map though, I'd guess 6-7 cities is optimal if the land allows for that.

 

[JoeSham]

Lol so I gave it a first try and realized that after those 2 years away from Civ5, I am completely clueless after about first 100 turns. Didn't even remember the mechanics of a diplo win properly, thought Atomic Era is enough for UN etc.

Anyway, as a first easy benchmark to beat, here are some T235 victory screenshots:

 

[JoeSham]

Just tried liberating a foreign capital, but did not get the votes. Does it still work? If so, are there some other conditions?

Also, does someone know how exactly do the timings of the World Leader vote work?

 

[vadalaz]

Resurrecting an AI should work, I remember it working for me in the latest patch. Not sure why they wouldn't vote for you.

The wikia article on World Congress seems to have the correct vote timings and mechanics http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/World_Congress_(Civ5)

 

[Valshia]

Just tried liberating a foreign capital, but did not get the votes. Does it still work? If so, are there some other conditions?

Also, does someone know how exactly do the timings of the World Leader vote work?

The civ needs to be wiped out and brought back, not just down their capital, to get their votes.

The timing of the first World Leader vote is 10 turns after the next upcoming regular vote when you enter the Info Era (or half the civs reach Atomic), then every 20 turns thereafter with regular votes in between.

 

[JoeSham]

Just had a nice game, T206 win. 6 cities, mostly peaceful after first ~70 turns. 1st and 2nd city locations were fairly nice, also had Mt. Kilimanjaro nearby to improve my scouting, rest of the city spots were at best average though. Went Tradition (filled T80), 3 city NC, then 3 more cities, last 2 coastal for cargo ships. Went for T132 Printing Press which resulted in a T195 UN session -> T206 1st World Leader vote. As for policies, after Tradition I opened Commerce, then Rationalism + Secularism (+2 sci/spec, from Oracle), then went for Mercantilism (cheaper buildings), then back to Rationalism policies, but saw I was not going to finish it in time for the finisher (maybe I could have with a GE-rushed Statue Of Liberty, dunno), so instead I opened Patronage for Forbidden Palace just to make sure. Didn't go for World's Fair as I never could find the hammers for it in my previous tries. Wasn't quite sure if I was gonna make it tech-wise, felt pretty close, but in the end I got there 3 or 4 turns ahead of the World Congress timing and had 1 extra GS, and that is including Globalization. So in retrospect I probably could have gone for Printing Press some 4-8 turns sooner and possibly attack the sub-T200 victory, but it would have been very tight. I feel like I could have probably abused AI civs a bit more for a bit more money especially later in the game, but they just kept being close to broke most of the game anyway, so it wouldn't likely make too big of a difference.

Not sure if I am going to give it another try, most likely not, it feels quite hard to get a better game. But I am curious if @vadalaz or someone manages to really get something like T180-ish victory, right now I don't really see how that would be possible without a crazy map (like El Dorado for full money, several good coastal city spots, ...), but I will be happy to be proven wrong

 

[JoeSham]

The civ needs to be wiped out and brought back, not just down their capital, to get their votes.

Ah, so that was the reason, thx!

 

[billybgame]

Resurrecting an AI should work, I remember it working for me in the latest patch. Not sure why they wouldn't vote for you.

The wikia article on World Congress seems to have the correct vote timings and mechanics http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/World_Congress_(Civ5)

I think I've read this whole page.....I see no mention of this "resurrection" aspect. This is the first I've heard of this as well. I guess Diplomacy is my weakest victory type, so still learning....is this discussed further somewhere?....sure doesn't seem to be easily found in game. I've looked up how to win by Diplomacy many times, and never, ever, have I seen any mention of wiping out civs and resurrecting them.

 

[vadalaz]

This tactic used to be called the Cromagnus special. It's particularly useful on smaller maps where it can be hard to get enough votes on the first UN vote without Globalization. Cromagnus himself described it like this:

So, yeah, if you're only 1 vote short, just execute the Cromagnus special:

1) Put warmongers in your game. 2 will suffice. Find someone you can pay to DoW someone, preferably early when you can still convince anyone to DoW, but with warmongers it shouldn't matter.
2) Get open borders with the warmonger and pay them to DoW their *neighbor*.
3) Get their neighbor's *last city* down to zero health, then gift the warmonger units right next to the guy's border.
4) Let him capture their last city.
5) Liberate.

The liberated guy will always vote for you as World Leader.

You can also buy another civ's votes if you have a diplomat in their capital, but IIRC they'll only do it if (your delegates + their delegates + 4) is less than the number required to win.

 

[Zlither]

This is quite interesting (vadalaz is good - top 6 spots)... but restricting to 'fractal' this may be more interesting. Removing the lowest/highest difficulties (which both tend to take shorter) makes 206 looks really good!

 

[Zlither]

Never had a good run. Did find out that Killing the 5th civ on the very turn of the 1st resolution vote does work, that is, the world leader vote is 10 turns later.

Mods: crash at 157, all saves available. (butcertainly not a prize-worthy time - 255).

 

[JoeSham]

Ok so I did try again quite a few times actually But finally managed to improve on my previous best game - this time with a T201 win. So still not sub 200, but close. Tbh this game was probably a bit worse than the T206 win one, but I knew better how the endgame works already, so managed my UN and World Leader voting sessions better. Don't think I could have gotten a better time out of this one, or maybe by like 1-3 turns if I somehow got more gold in the midgame to rush buy more than 1 Public School. Also not 100% sure if HOF staff will accept this game as I had to reload a ******ed misclick. And btw, I recalled Sejong to life by liberating his capital which I got in a peace deal from Shaka, but still did not get his votes, no idea why :/

Anyways, went for 4 city Tradition game, spots weren't spectacular but decent enough and close to each other plus all had a mountain. Had 4 cities by t60, Tradition completed t75, NC t80, Civil Service t85, Education t94, Astronomy t106 with 1 buld to be able to get Rationalism. Then Secularism t110, Printing Press t127 (could have been t123, but I delayed it slightly because I didn't think I could tech to Radio in 30 turns from t123). Then Scientific Theory t146, but was able to buy only 1 Public School because I had horsehockey army and was not able to get good Peace Deals. Then Radio t157 with another bulb to make it to Atomic Era before next World Congress to get the next period down to 25 turns. Then Plastics t181 insta rush bought all 4 Research Labs, but only had 5 turns till the next vote. With Special Session those 5 turns extended to 7 turns, so I was able to get to Information Era on t188 just exactly with my bulbs and Oxford. Then I finished Globalization a few turns later with my Rationalism finisher. Money felt tight so I sold all research buildings (and went from 960 science to some 320 ). In the end I actually had a few grands extra, but better safe than sorry. Anyway, was still surprised by 1 or 2 turns that stopped the UN voting clock, thought this could be a t199 win, but t201 still pretty nice for me. Sub T200 is definitely possible, but still quite doubtful that t180-ish is possible.

 

[JoeSham]

T199 victory now, yay! Similar game as the previous one except I had a bit more culture (a lot of cultural city-states with good quests helped) and a lot more gold - was able to rush buy 2 Universities and all 4 Public Schools (and ofc all 4 Research Labs). Mostly due to better peace deals, trading and also having my 2nd city next to Cerro de Potosi helped. Also was able to get all the early wonders.

Timings
4 cities T47 (I think)
Great Lib T63
Tradition T71
National College T75
Civil Service T83
Education T91 (Science 101, Culture 41, Population 30; bought 2 universities, built 3rd in 7 turns, bought 4th in 8 turns)
Astronomy T105 (no bulb)
Rationalism T106 (9th social policy)
Printing Press T125 (not delayed)
Scientific Theory T147 (rush bought all 4 Public Schools, science 472, culture 103, pop 42)
Radio T155 (with 1 bulb)
Plastics T176 (with 2 bulbs, 8 turns to next vote, sicence 920, culture 163, pop 69)
Telecommunication & Info era T185 (with Oxford, 1 turn to next vote)
Rationalism finisher and Globalization T185
Victory T199 (science +1050, gold +319, culture +313, population 81 orig. 4 cities + 14 in captured cities, score 4048 - higher than in the T234 win game, lol)

 

[Denniz]

Gauntlet Results:
G-Minor CXLXX - Diplomacy, Prince, Standard, Fractal, Standard, Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar II)
1st vadalaz - 1180 AD T-178
2nd JoeSham - 1390 AD T-199
3rd zlither - 1725 AD T-255