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G-Minor CXXXIV

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Denniz, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

    (*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

    Settings:
    • Expansion: Brave New World
    • Victory Condition: Culture (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Prince
    • Map Size: Standard
    • Map Type: Tiny Islands
    • Speed: Quick
    • Leader: Venice (Enrico Dandolo)
    • Opponents: Any
    • Version: SV8
    • Date: 2nd to 16th December 2016
    The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
     
  2. Zlither

    Zlither Chieftain

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    If you're not good enough to win before Ideology (I'm not), a useful thing is to take Autocracy for Futurism (250 tourism for each GA/GM/GW), then faith buy as many as you can (even if you do not have slots for them). This probably does not work well on higher levels, but here it seemed more useful that GM tours: Early enough, the 250 is far greater than you get from tours, even if you do not have a slot to put their work in.

    With a good start on this level, GL -> NC -> SH is possible. With a great start, ->GLighthouse->Parthenon.

    Tried several times, and eventually decided Persia was not a good opponent... they regularly bested everyone (of the opponents I chose), even Brazil.

    (Mods: my submission had a crash at 175. It was after the turn/when processing the next turn, so a load from autosave had no loss. I filed a bug in the Technical Support thread, as this is a very easy to cause crash).

    [Added later: GMusician on quick suffer per Vadalaz's comment
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/game-speed-scaling-exploits.571074/
    which explains why the tours were not doing much.]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  3. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Gauntlet Results:
    G-Minor CXXXIV - Culture, Prince, Standard, Tiny Islands, Quick, Venice (Enrico Dandolo)
    1st Mighty Dwaarf - 1675 AD T-160
    2nd zlither - 1715 AD T-168
    3rd aistlin1967 - 1864 AD T-202

    Congratulations!
     
  4. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Nizef recently requested that I post some insights from my game at these settings (played about a year after this gauntlet). I will post them here.
     
  5. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    These settings required a bit of a creative culture approach.

    Often, the fastest means to culture victory are through

    1) the Reformation belief Sacred Sites and as many cities as you can found

    or else

    2) Greek liberation approach by conqiering 1 civ very quickly before they can build up more culture than a great musician tour gives. Wipe put all the pther civs, then sell/gift that first capital to Alexander who most of the time liberates it and lets it back into the game. Do a great musician tour there and wipe out Alexander quickly for the Culture victory

    If the settings do not allow the above two approaches, you must earn culture victory through the standard means of tourism through culture buildings, great works, hotels, the Internet technology, etc.

    Venice does not allow a Sacred Sites approach as it cannot found cities at will.

    The Prince Quick Standard Tiny Islands setting made the Greek liberation approach unwieldy/impractical.

    That left "straight" tourism. Usually it involves a tech race to the Internet which doubles Tourism and goes through Hotels and Tourism wonder techs along the way.

    Venice has some issues gunning a pure technology rush with its restrictions on founding cities and the Tiny Islands also slow/restrict city size and spread as well.

    Thus I decided to use Venice's trade routes and naval prowess to push for a tourism win without the need to reach the Internet-
     
  6. Nizef

    Nizef Warlord

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    Thanks. Yes I guessed as much as that approach #1 was not your way forward. I was thinking of #2 myself but it is kind of unfulfilling on Prince. But I just wanted to make sure that there was no other fast track to CV that you could magically have used :) I also looked at the AIs you had chosen and it made a lot of sense to include the warmongers for a (maybe) slightly faster finishing time.

    EDIT: What social policies did you take?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  7. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    I think Zlither had the right idea with Futurism. You'd need a really, really strong capital though, and probably kill off the culture leaders to speed things up.

    There are more tedious things you could try, like doing a less efficient Greek Liberation. Kill someone quickly, kill everyone else and Greek-liberate the first AI, then you just have one extremely crippled AI to culturally dominate, which should happen fast with even subpar Sacred Sites.
     
  8. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    My basic set-up strategy:
    Choose all warlike civs to populate the world so that
    a) they can waste time and resources sparring with rach other rather than producing culture
    b) not be a threat to me and be easy to take out if need be because of the Tiny Islands setting and my Great Galleons.
    c) they would not mind any warlike activity I took part in that peaceloving civs hate.

    In-game plan:
    The map helped formulate the plan to get triremes out asap to explore and specific surroundings (reasonable but not crazy growth terrain but good production terrain, uninspiring city states nearby) led me to beeline Great Library/Stonehenge/Parthenon/Oracle/guilds/Borobrodur with Venice while only using conquest and the 1 free Great Merchant from Liberty for expansion.
    Basically, play like a One City challenge for streamlining social policy acquisition and techs, as the City States you get at prince usually need some serious development and are not always on such good terrain. I never even annexed Belgrade which I Great Merchant-acquired or Ulundi which I conquered.

    For religion, I focused on culture and generating faith to get missionaries to spread my religion to the AI civs for the shared religion tourism bonus and Initiation Rites gold.Built Stonehenge and Borobrodur to help the faith generation and spread

    Pantheon: God-King - perfect for a one city challenge-type effort. Early culture boost. Only had 2 salt maybe on my island and no other faith-producing pantheon terrain.
    Founder: Initiation Rites - Going for as fast a win as possible, trying to actively spread my religion
    Follower: Divine Inspiration - Beelining GLibrary, Oracle, Parthenon, later culture wonders means plenty of extra faith from an early date from the 2 faith per wonder bonus here
    Follower: Hermitage provides +5 culture and +5 Tourism - Planning to get Hermitage out as soon as possible in an OCC-type effort. Seemed better than other options for the CV in my game
    Enhancer : Missionaries cost 30% less - actively spreading religion was a strong goal. Tiny Islands too spread out for the "spread" enhancer beliefs to help much.

    Social Policies:
    Full Liberty (When you cannot steal an early worker on Tiny Islands, that free Liberty worker helps a lot when you have Salt/hills nearby, + Free Great Merchant of course)
    Tradition Opener and Aristocracy ( tile acquisition/Bonus to Wonders)
    Full Aesthetics
    Rationalism Opener (cannot remember why, maybe at end)
    Exploration Opener (for Louvre, but never needed to finish it)

    Tech:
    Early mining for the nearby Salt; beeline Sailing to explore and get cargo ships going, beeline Great Library/Stonehenge/Oracle/Parthenon/Writer's Guild
    Then go for Education/Artist's Guild/Musician's Guild

    My capital was not crazy big and culture/faith more a focus than science, so I only got up to Archaeology/Architecture. Did not even get to Scientific Theory.

    Culture:
    Parthenon/Uffizi for Culture/Great Artist works, GLibrary/Oxford to stick Great Writing works, Uffizi and GL had +6 and +4 theming bonuses respectively. Hermitage gave 5 tourism with the Religious Art belief.
    Getting friendship with Sweden helped crank out the Great People

    10 Cargo Ships, a well-spread religion, and open borders with Aesthetics gave me +80 to +120% tourism bonus with any AI civ who mattered.

    War:
    It played out fine. Zulus were very close, aggressive, and the culture leaders. Wiped them out and puppeted Ulundi, which had Great Lighthouse too. Played friendly with others most of the game for the trade route/religion/open borders bonuses

    Overall impression:
    I am much like Cromagnus used to be in wanting to play out any halfway decent map I am on as a challenge/unfolding story rather than map rolling until I get a totally killer start. My starting terrain had 2 salt and nearby fish on my pretty tiny home island, and that was enough.
    The specific map led me to play this one largely like a One City Challenge effort rather than try to engineer Viennese expansion. Would probably not have tried Greek liberation in any circumstance at Prince/Quick Speed/Tiny Islands. Tiny Islands is a spread-out map with nonabundant resources and the naval requirement and quick speed make that conquest unappealing. If I had had good growth prospects/CS neighbors, I might have tried a science-heavy approach and used Tradition, growth beliefs etc., but culture/faith/early war with Zulus seemed appropriate on my map and I wanted to try something different anyway. Mainly wanted to do something different than race for science, in the end. It was nice to get a Culture victory in a different way than usual!
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  9. Nizef

    Nizef Warlord

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    Thank you! I played a game before I read your latest posting and now when I compare it to your game, I understand some of the issues I had (since it took me until t192 to finish it). However, I played peacefully all game. My capital was decent (pop24 when I finished the game) but not fantastic (never had "fantastic" capitals on Tiny Islands). It seems I kept your pace well in science (in fact I had both Archeology and Industrialization on t145) but I should have had a different TO to better prioritize culture enhancing techs. I also spent a few points in Piety, which was mostly a waste and Tradition did not do enough for me either. Just as a fun fact: Askia (not so surprising) and Attila (very surprising) were the last two AIs I had to overcome for my CV. Actually Attila played well for Prince. He managed 5 wonders even if his capital was just about terrible since he had only 7 tiles to work (3 Fish, 1 Gems, 1 Furs and 2 regular mines, the rest was crappy water tiles).
     

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