G-Minor XCVIII

[Morcar_olmig]

I guess it's a good option for OCC games?

If you have big holy city (it's almost not affected by missionaries, thus can be hit many many times) of another religion nearby then it might be worth. For example for the city with 20 foreign followers you would get 10x20 = 200 science for one religion spreading - so one missionary would worth 400 science or 600 science with borobudur. Great prophets are more useful as they have 4 religion spreading possibilities, but their price goes up and they eliminate foreign religion - what might be ok only for non-holy cities. On the other hand when you enter Industrialism you no longer want to spend faith on missionaries (exclusion is the end game when you don't have enough faith to buy any GP).

Thus interfaith dialog is useful mainly until Indu and with strong religious leader nearby.

 

[Bleidraner]

If you have big holy city (it's almost not affected by missionaries, thus can be hit many many times) of another religion nearby then it might be worth. For example for the city with 20 foreign followers you would get 10x20 = 200 science for one religion spreading - so one missionary would worth 400 science or 600 science with borobudur. Great prophets are more useful as they have 4 religion spreading possibilities, but their price goes up and they eliminate foreign religion - what might be ok only for non-holy cities. On the other hand when you enter Industrialism you no longer want to spend faith on missionaries (exclusion is the end game when you don't have enough faith to buy any GP).

Thus interfaith dialog is useful mainly until Indu and with strong religious leader nearby.

Interesting. Interfaith dialogue. Have never used it. May try it, but giving up on food, or production or religious buildings is tough.

 

[Denniz]

Gauntlet Results:
G-Minor XCVIII - Science, Warlord, Small, Great Plains, Standard, Rome (Augustus Caesar)
1st Manpanzee - 1340 AD T-194 7813 points
2nd zenmaster - 1340 AD T-194 7102 points
3rd vadalaz - 1350 AD T-195

Congratulations!

 

[zenmaster]

Congratulations to Manpanzee, Vadalaz, and everyone else who got a game in! Looked like some solid finish times. This map and level definitely make for a "feelgood" victory.

@Bleidraner - Yes, internal trade routes are normally what I use, but even aside from the weird game situation I had, I think external routes are so good on these settings because internal routes only get you 4 food most of this fast science game, and so many AIs are so close on this map that there are constantly new quests for trade routes (as well as easily reachable barb camp quests.) I had 9 of the 11 AIs as allies and 1 friended at the end with no Patronage policies and only 2 cash gifts of 250 gold through the whole game (to get key quest resources). If anyone tries this after the gauntlet, I think Patronage policies are unnecessary.

With Great Plains map on Warlord difficulty, you have great knowledge of how much you can spread your religion. If you build or capture Stonehenge and don't include Ethiopia or the Celts, you are pretty much guaranteed the first religion and can get it spread to all cities. Count how many cities there are on the small map and you know how much cash Initiation Rites will get you.

 

[zenmaster]

Interesting. Interfaith dialogue. Have never used it. May try it, but giving up on food, or production or religious buildings is tough.

Interfaith Dialogue is a Founder belief, so you are giving up the gold from Tithe/Initiation Rites/Church Property or possibly happiness from Ceremonial Burial.

I think it is not good for Freedom science games actually (though it gives you science...) because as Morcar_olmig pointed out, it is not much help after the Industrial Era hits, and not having the gold from another founder belief really hurts if you are going Freedom (or Order for that matter. )

I have dabbled with using it in warlike Diplomatic Victory games though. In those, the goal is to hit Edu/P. Press/Industrial Era with urgency, and you don't need to care much about the lack of extra gold after turn 200. I really want to make it work in a solid diplo win as Morcar_olmig suggests it can be used. You are counting on it generating more science than the cash from IR/Tithes would have gained you buying a science building or three.

 

[Bleidraner]

Thnaks for the tips Zenmaster, very useful. I really loved this gauntlet. It is rare to have a science victory where various paths are available, Freedom, Order, different pantheons and religious beliefs. I would have liked to see somebody trying a wide Liberty, like 7 or 8 cities, which I think would have been viable, or even a more than 6 Tradition, although I would be arguing against my convictions (6 is the maximum for optimal finish I believe). Great combination of level and map. I really like the fact that the Great Plains is not that random so we are all playing similar maps and thus the tight patter on finish times. At least 5 players within 12 turns, and all of them great results, that feels really good.

 

[vadalaz]

Congrats to the winners!

@Bleidraner, I actually felt this gauntlet lacked the variety that you mention, sort of like the recent Egypt gauntlet, but not as extreme. Sure, ideology choice and some other things are up to the player and it'll vary from game to game, unlike the Egypt gauntlet where there was pretty much a perfect build order that you had to follow every time, but weren't like the top 5-6 finishes all using the same 4 self-founded, 2 captured cities Tradition formula?

 

[Bleidraner]

@Vadalaz, yes you are right. 5-6 cities Tradition everybody, but Order was competitive in this one, rare in a pure science game where we are all shooting for under 200. I just felt that we were all conservative or did not have time to try another approach. 8 cities Liberty, carefully played, seemed viable to me. I was just too obsessed with saving the 5-6 turns I needed to save to get under 200, so did not try it. Because I thought nothing could really beat 6 cities Tradition. And discarded any Piety approach. Um. You may be right. Fun though

 

[vadalaz]

You're right, it's fun to refine your play to perfection. I just wish there was at least one different, yet competitive approach.

I couldn't think of anything like that though so I didn't replay this, except for one 8 cities attempt with Tradition, which didn't work out. I think it does have potential, but it's tricky. The problem for me was that I was always "behind the schedule", finishing all the buildings 10-15 turns too late for the game to be competitive.

I think a wide Freedom game can be finished in 15-20 turns after Plastics though, which is why I'm saying there is potential for this to be a viable strategy. You have to get Plastics around T170-175 then, have enough cash for instant labs and all the other important buildings have to be finished, and 600+ gpt since this is Warlord and AIs suck. Difficult to pull off.

 

[zenmaster]

I vote that Great Plains (and Great Plains Plus) maps should never be used on a Major gauntlet if it can be helped. The saminess of the map for a whole month is tough. The Egyptian marathon one and a previous culture one on those maps for a Major were discouraging me from trying new things with them late in the month.

They are great for Minors though, as Bleidraner pointed out. Competitive, and quick to get a handle on so you can fit in several quality games in 2 weeks. I think this was a fun gauntlet. Thanks Peets!

 

[Morcar_olmig]

Sorry for ressurecting this old thread, but how it came that i got 3rd place in this gauntlet, while Zen is completely out of the table ? http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/gauntlet.php?show=minor&gauntlet=154&submit=Go?

 

[zenmaster]

Sorry for ressurecting this old thread, but how it came that i got 3rd place in this gauntlet, while Zen is completely out of the table ? http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/gauntlet.php?show=minor&gauntlet=154&submit=Go?

Hi, and good to see you in the forums. I am pretty sure I got this game in just a tiny bit late. The due date was the 17th, but I think the cutoff was earlier in the day. My entry says it was submitted on the 17th, but I think it was really late in the day.

If I remember correctly, this was a crazy game. I think I had zero cultural City States in my game. Somehow I scraped by, using the advantages of the extra religious, mercantile, and military CSes to put up a pretty good time.

 

[Morcar_olmig]

Not really fair to make a cutoff before the day is over...But nice to know that you are doing well in this part of the forum. I returned to civ one month ago, but accidently "degraded" to civ4. Still remember our hot competition in civ5 though

 

[zenmaster]

Not really fair to make a cutoff before the day is over...But nice to know that you are doing well in this part of the forum. I returned to civ one month ago, but accidently "degraded" to civ4. Still remember our hot competition in civ5 though

There were some pretty hot gauntlets during that time! You kicked butt on the ones you entered, I remember

 

[vadalaz]

Revisited this gauntlet and tried a very aggressive approach, killing all but one AI early and getting an 11-city empire. What I really like about doing this on Great Plains is that it's not too difficult to connect all the luxuries on the map for constant WLTKDs. Got a T182 victory, beating my old result by 13 turns.

In the end I was making so much science that I didn't build Hubble and still got one unnecessary final tier tech with the overflow from bulbing. I lost the Great Library to the one AI that survived which slowed down my Education timing. Missing Mausoleum was unfortunate as well.

Religion was +100g / food from shrines / +15% production, skipping faith buildings to spam missionaries instead for the founder belief gold. I also used the Liberty finisher to engineer Borobudur. The highlight of the game was 4-turning the World's Fair with 500+ hammers per turn across all cities.